# I kind of have a problem with this place



## JaLyn (Oct 10, 2012)

I wasn't going to say anything because I dont' want to start trouble but it's to the point where i'm not sure I can stay if I don't.There is such controversy over bottle raising or dam raising that people are losing goats because bottle raising on the forum is looked down upon so much. I totally support those of you that dam raise and just don't understand why you can't give that same support and respect back. I don't disagree with your choice because it is your choice so in my opinion then thats what's best for you. If someone comes on here and has a baby not eating the people that dam raise shove it down their throat to the point where a member lost her kid due to keeping it with a dam that didn't have adequate milk to support all the kids and me being one that bottle raisies can't dare say pull them because them my advice is totally shoved out of the way because "bottle raising is soo bad". I feel like so many on here are hell bent on dam raising that sometimes they don't look at what may be best for one particular members need at that time fora certain baby. I bottle raise and would just like a little respect for my choice and feel sometimes certain instances require bottle raising.


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## JaLyn (Oct 10, 2012)

I also feel there should be more info on bottle raising for those that want to and need to..


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

I will have to make a choice of how I will raise my "kidds" once I start to breed my girls. And I would like as much info on each method .


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## mjgh06 (Sep 4, 2012)

Christy,

I am so sorry you feel that way and hope that I am not one who may have offended you. I dam raise, but I do know that there are times when I have pulled a kid and bottle fed them. I think there are pros and cons to both dam and bottle raising, but it is each person's individual choice. I respect that. Personally, I just don't have the time needed to bottle raise my babies. 

Yes, I do feel like a baby is healthier if it get colostrum for the first 24hours of life but that can be accomplished by bottle feeding. I also feel a special bond is built between dam and kid when allowed to nurse. But I feel that way about human babies as well though. Bottle raising kids provides a bond between owner and kid and there is a closeness there that can't be obtained when dam raised. Like I said there are good and bad about both.

I don't judge or offer treatment advise based on whether the kid is bottle raised or dam raised. I don't think that matters. What's most important are the symptoms and what we can do to get the goat well. A lot of times those of us who dam raise have to or should pull the kid and bottle feed or tube feed when a kid is very ill or the dam is ill or can't or won't nurse. But each situation is different and each illness is different - the treatment isn't effected by how the kid is being nursed but by what would be best to do for that goat at that specific time.

I hope you decide to stay on here because I believe you could help others who do bottle raise their kids. You offer great insight and experience for those who need help with bottle raising and everything else.


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## mjgh06 (Sep 4, 2012)

JaLyn said:


> I also feel there should be more info on bottle raising for those that want to and need to..


How about looking at my site and telling me if I got it right? I don't bottle feed but thought it was important to include the info for those that do.
http://www.elwoodranch.com/goats/goat-care/bottle-babies/


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## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

mjgh06 said:


> I hope you decide to stay on here because I believe you could help others who do bottle raise their kids. You offer great insight and experience for those who need help with bottle raising and everything else.


I agree!


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## shibby7 (Feb 20, 2012)

Same goes with talks about CL and such, people go nutty over that, sometimes overboard. But those same people, can have a Johnes positive goat show up, get rid of it, and less then a year later start selling kids again with no mention of the Johnes..........anyway, that's another topic lol.

I have to pull & bottle raise some kids this year, and I had asked about colostrum replacement powders - and even though I asked not to be told to heat treat the dam's colostrum (I can't do it here), it was jammed at me anyway! Only one person actually replied to my question  , I was really surprised!

Overall though, I love this site, there are a lot of great members!!! We have to just try and not let these things bother us. When I'm not comfortable posting on the board, I send a PM.


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## KarmakeeFarm (Jun 3, 2012)

Ok girlie-you aint going anywhere!!!!!!
I have dam raised-and do-and bottle raised when necessary-neither way is better than than the other IMHO  Some people do it for health reasons-some people dam raise for time restrictions ie WORK! bluck I would bottle raise if I didnt work just cause its fun!
You do it your way sis!
Think of what you'll miss if you leave...
<hugs>!!


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## shibby7 (Feb 20, 2012)

mjgh06 said:


> How about looking at my site and telling me if I got it right? I don't bottle feed but thought it was important to include the info for those that do.
> http://www.elwoodranch.com/goats/goat-care/bottle-babies/


I like the info you have here - however, I don't like the *DO NOT FEED MILK REPLACERS/FORMULA - Milk Replacers Kill your Kids! *part. Although its not ideal to use replacers, sometimes, we just don't have a choice, and we shouldn't be made to stress over it! The truth is, improperly used milk replacer kills kids, ie/too watered down, not enough water, not warm enough, too hot, etc. When used properly, I have had no problems raising kids on replacers. I have a single function pasteurizer now though, so I can use pasteurized goat milk instead (pasteurized for CAE prevention). But its only because I got it for $80 - otherwise, I would still be using the replacer when needed.

People need to stop putting these fears into others about certain things - like the disbudding paste for another example. I thought for sure if I used it, it was going to burn my goats eyes, blind them, burn huge holes in their heads.......I finally got the guts to try it, and it was NOTHING like I was told about! Now, that's all I use is the paste, and I shouldn't be made to feel bad about it either......nor should anyone else. We all have to do what works for US!


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## JaLyn (Oct 10, 2012)

I value everyones opinion on dam raising and i'm even considering it myself but I just feel that sometimes dam raising is pushed when sometimes pulling and bottle raising a certain kid is needed. THanks you guys for saying your kind words. I do love this place but would just like to be able to proudly say hey i bottle raise for as long as i am and be able to encourage someone to pull a kid and bottle raising it if I think their situation requires it. Thank you all for being kind and not getting upset at me.


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## JaLyn (Oct 10, 2012)

Shibby I agree I use whole cows milk but I was afraid to admit that on two particular goats that i had years ago I successfully raised them both on replacement powdered milk.


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## goatiegirl (Jan 7, 2013)

JaLyn said:


> There is such controversy over bottle raising or dam raising that people are losing goats because bottle raising on the forum is looked down upon so much.
> I bottle raise and would just like a little respect for my choice and feel sometimes certain instances require bottle raising.


I agree. At first I was just a lurker on this forum because I was afraid I would be looked down on for getting bottle babies. I was taken by surprise to find out on another post that there ARE some on here that do raise bottle babies and so I finally joined after 5 months of just viewing.

I for one say PLEASE stay and help those who are bottle raising. I know I for one am soooo nervous about doing something wrong that I know I will be needing LOTS of advice!! Please, please stay!!


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## KarmakeeFarm (Jun 3, 2012)

I have also sucessfully raised kids on powdered milk replacer and cow milk from the store with added baby vitamins and molasses-that was what we did way back- everyone can does something different and have the same results!!!
Hip Hip Horray for being able to voice an opinion!!!!!


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## KarmakeeFarm (Jun 3, 2012)

Shibby-you used the paste huhu? I was scared to try it  My disbudder is on the way LOL Thanks for the tip!


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## shibby7 (Feb 20, 2012)

mnblonde said:


> Shibby-you used the paste huhu? I was scared to try it


YEP! And my babies didn't die either . Here's the thread that got me to try it: http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f217/dr-naylor-dehorning-paste-good-bad-114725/


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## Goatieberries (Jan 8, 2013)

I'm sorry you feel judged  I dam raise mine but I don't have any issue with people bottle raising. In some ways it's good and a lot of people do it as part of a CAE prevention program. I think you should stay on too so that you can help offer information to those that choose to bottle feed. :hugs:


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## kiddoe (Oct 8, 2012)

I don't disagree with any form of feeding, bottle or dam, although I am somewhat new to the goat world and have not had kids born at my farm yet. I have bottlefed a baby, but he was an orphan rescue, so he had to be fed somehow. The day will come where my girls will be bred and when that day comes I will probably let the kids be dam raised. BUT, there may be instances where a kid will need to be bottle fed due to weakness and/or illness, or when the mama happends to die. On the other hand, I really don't see a problem with being bottle fed from the beginning even if there is no illness/weakness or orphaning, after all, they are being fed cared for, and that's what they need, right?


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

I am very sorry this happened...I didn't see that thread, but I would definitely have supported bottle supplementing or raising in that case! I will be sure to make that clear whenever I discuss it, if there's any doubt.
I am strongly against taking kids away from their dams, except in the case of confirmed CAE. However, I am very much in favor of supplementing a kid that is not getting enough. I had to heavily supplement a kid this spring, and I loved it. So it is not bottle raising I am against, just separating doe and kids if there's not a very good reason. But I still like you bottle raisers - it's not a big enough deal to get mad about! And I hope I haven't made anyone mad (I try not to).


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Awww JaLyn you can't go anywhere! So sorry this has happened.
I definitely don't judge anyone for their choices to bottlefeed, I always figure they have their reasons. 
When people have issues with a doe and need to try and get her to take a kid, then that's when I chime in and say be consistent. Obviously if they want mom to nurse that baby, then they are wanting a dam raised kid.
If a doe doesn't have enough milk for a kid, then anyone that says leave that kid on that doe is IMO wrong. Leave the kid with mom and let it nurse and try to build up the milk supply, but common sense in anyone that's been around these critters and knows anything about babies would know you should be supplementing it.
That's something a newbie wouldn't know, or someone who isn't very experienced with birthing/raising babies, or hasn't had the issue come up before.

We all have our opinions on how things should be done. We should all just work harder to respect each others opinions and beliefs 

BTW, I also don't think I saw the topic where someone lost a baby because of it, so sad this happened


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

JaLyn I hope you don't leave. I guess I never read the comments maybe completely enough to notice. I know there are some long time members, especially in the dairy goats that routinely pull babies. As of yet I haven't, but I didn't have to. I would have no problem pulling a baby if I needed to. Being a parent I guess I equate if to babies breast fed vs bottle. But there are times (like when I had twins) there was no way I could get the breast fed done. 
I think the importance of colostrum should be more of the point be it from the mom, milked from mom and fed with a bottle, or a colostrum replacer fed in a bottle. I think people need to remember we all have opinions and different experience, which yes makes it hard for a newbie; but, they can read the different reasons for something and make their choice. I know there have been things I thought, hmm not for me but I just move on to what may work for me. 
I hope you don't leave. :hug:


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

I think we all need to realize that we all have different goals with our goats. I dam raisea but don't mind you bottle raising. I agree that alot of babies die because of a sick mother or stressed mother, they need to be pulled before that comes. 

At the end of the day we all love our goats and do what we feel is best. I would like to see more on bottle raising, if we don't have access to goats milk. I learned alot in just a few days last year when we took in a bottle baby. It wasn't easy info to find either


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## mjgh06 (Sep 4, 2012)

shibby7 said:


> I like the info you have here - however, I don't like the *DO NOT FEED MILK REPLACERS/FORMULA - Milk Replacers Kill your Kids! *part. Although its not ideal to use replacers, sometimes, we just don't have a choice, and we shouldn't be made to stress over it! The truth is, improperly used milk replacer kills kids, ie/too watered down, not enough water, not warm enough, too hot, etc. When used properly, I have had no problems raising kids on replacers.


Thanks for the response. I have no experience using milk replacers for the simple fact that I was told never to do so. Can I add you information above to the site for others to know it is not always bad?

I removed the Bold item and added in "It should be mentioned that there has been a lot of fear around using milk replacers on kids. I for one had always heard never to use it as it would kill the kid. Thanks to some friends from the goatspot forum, I have learned that milk replacers although not ideal will not kill your kids. And if used properly, healthy goats can be raised using the milk replacer and colostrum replacers. The problem occurs when it is not used properly - too watered down, not enough water, not warm enough, too hot, etc. Thanks to the Goat Spot friends for pointing this out to me."


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## IrishRoots (Jan 7, 2013)

Sorry you felt that way!! There are great reasons to Dam raise and great reasons to bottle raise. To each his and her own!:hug:


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

I currently have 3 babies on the dam and 2 in the house on the bottle. I had 3 bottles but we lost our precious little guy last night. I feel like if I had pulled him from the dam sooner he would still be here. I will never hesitate to pull them again. Is a dam fed baby better off? Maybe IDK but i DO know this... a bottle fed baby is better than a dead on any day! So us bottle mammas will stick together and learn from and support each other!


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## JaLyn (Oct 10, 2012)

Jenvise..thats my main problem here. People are pushed so hard to keep the kids on their dams that people are losing babies. I am all for dam raising as much as i am for bottle but dam raising is being pushed at times when it shouldn't..Sometimes we need to look at the whole picture, it's not just about the dam and the bond..it's about raising a healthy ALIVE baby and sometimes that means pulling the baby. I feel almost ashamed at times on here to talk about me bottle raising, it's like i can almost feel people rolling their eyes and to be honest i'm not the only one that feels that way..just the only one speaking up. I really appreciate everyones post and i'm happy taht it sounds like this will change around here.


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## WillowGem (Aug 3, 2011)

JaLyn, I hope you decide to stay.
As a newbie, I've learned quite a bit from you, and it would be a loss if you were no longer a part of this forum. :hug:


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

I understand completely what you're saying...at times I feel like I'm being judged for asking silly questions or maybe for just being a "newbie" on this site. Just because I'm new here, doesn't mean I'm new to goats. I have had my goats for 5 years...but I'm not even close to knowing everything there is to know! I learn something new every single day...and I have learned an incredible amount from this forum...and that includes you! I pray that you don't leave. If you do, other "newbie" members will lose out on the knowledge that you have to offer! AND....we're neighbors, remember?!?!?!?


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## mama2cntrykids (Jan 1, 2013)

I am obviously new to goats, but if people are doing the best they can for a particular goat, that's what matters. That person should be supported to the best of others on this forums ability.


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

:hug: JaLyn :hug:


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## JaLyn (Oct 10, 2012)

I don't want to leave and meant more that i needed to express my feelings on this before i get to the point where i do. I"m not going anywhere and i hope i havent' made so many mad that they wish i'd leave i just feel this needs to be addressed..thanks gals you sure make me feel wanted here.thank you. I love this place just wanted to talk about this..


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## Goatieberries (Jan 8, 2013)

I am still new to goats. That said, I appreciate very much all that I have learned from knowledgeable people on these forums. If it weren't for all of you I'm sure I would not have been anywhere near as successful as I've been so far with raising my goats. They are all healthy and thriving thanks to all I have learned so far. So thanks to all of you!!!


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## maple hill farm tina (Mar 14, 2010)

Actually, I've felt just the opposite. There have been recent threads that were VERY insulting to people who choose to dam raise. It's one of the reasons why I haven't been on here nearly as often as I used to be...


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## xymenah (Jul 1, 2011)

I have always felt this site is pretty open to just about everything. I see it pretty equal on the bottle issue though I have seen some that see dam raising as a horrible thing but that's me I can see how everyone can see it differently. I dam raise for the first three days or so then my kids go on the bottle. So I can see both sides of the coin.


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## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

I would really appreciate it if NO ONE LEFT TGS. TGS ia a fantastic site with all sorts of information.

I think a lot of hoopla over the replacer came from years ago when companies had no idea what a goat needed. The most notable replacer then and currently is Sav-A-Kid. This stuff was known for causing problem in kids. Now was it a production issue or a user issue? No idea on this one. The main need for replacers came about when CAE was discovered. This disease/ailment was to be avoided like the plague and at all costs and replacer makers jumped on the bandwagon with every foot they could find. It didn't really matter if it was good for them or not. People bought it and the makers thrived. It was convenient and easy to use. It fit into busy lives and was inexpensive ( relatively speaking). It also offered the ability to easily bond with a baby animal. Then came the downfall. It was mixed wrong, fed in abundance to make the baby gain weight, and all around wasn't really good for them. Thankfully today there are many replacers on the market that actually are good for the babies. There are also better instructions on how to use them. The babies thrive and go on to lead happy, productive lives. 

On the subject of a baby being Dam raised. This also comes from the CAE prevention. If the Dam is CAE positive there is a chance she could pass it on to her baby through the milk. CAE causes problems in the show ring mainly. The goats aren't as large, don't give as much milk, and generally don't perform as well in the circuit. For the family or pet goat I don't really see it being any worse than someone born with the genes to develop RA or any other type of arthritis.. The disease can't be cured but the symptoms can be treated and the goat can lead a happy productive life.

I honestly believe that many of the problems we have with goats were caused by replacers of long ago. Those were made from a cow source and they didn't exactly care if the cow was sick. They only cared about how much they could make from its various products. Colostrum replacers/supplements are made from cow colostrum and may contain diseased products such as Johne's. It can't be pasteurized out due to the beneficial organisms all animals need. We take a huge chance when we use it but we as humans feel that that baby deserves a chance, and besides, its a baby and everyone loves babies. 

I prefer to Dam raise only because bottle feeding is time consuming and hard work. If I must bottle feed I do use a replacer because I feel its better than pasteurized cows milk. I use NurseALL by MannaPro and yes it's expensive. I use it because it works for me. Milk from the store used to be cheap but now it ranks up there in price with the replacer.

Now with all this rambling I expect anyone reading this or any other post/site/advice to take it with a grain of salt and decide what's best for you can your situation. Happy goat raising everyone.


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## KarmakeeFarm (Jun 3, 2012)

Well said Crocee... Well said ...:clap:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

JaLyn said:


> Jenvise..thats my main problem here. People are pushed so hard to keep the kids on their dams that people are losing babies. I am all for dam raising as much as i am for bottle but dam raising is being pushed at times when it shouldn't..Sometimes we need to look at the whole picture, it's not just about the dam and the bond..it's about raising a healthy ALIVE baby and sometimes that means pulling the baby. I feel almost ashamed at times on here to talk about me bottle raising, it's like i can almost feel people rolling their eyes and to be honest i'm not the only one that feels that way..just the only one speaking up. I really appreciate everyones post and i'm happy taht it sounds like this will change around here.


 I would like to know, what topic forum this is from. to see what was said, if anyone was out of line, in any way, we will confront them.
I want "all" to report anything, that upsets them, remember, keep it friendly keep it fun, is how we want it here. So I am shocked, we have so much concern with pushy people? When someone is out of line, we are good about correcting that, but sometimes, be aware, a member isn't always out of line, that it may of been taken wrong, so we won't respond to that, if we feel, it is not of concern.

There is a caution sign,on the left of the post to report any issues. It sends us an alert to look it over. If this feature is not used, we won't know your concerns. 
It isn't right though, to post complaints of members, out in the forum. If you are offended by a poster, report it. But if you disagree with one, this is not a feature to use. We don't want anyone feeling hurt, so if you have to contact a moderator or authority figure and address the issue, please do. We care about your feelings remember that. Also remember that everyone has different oppions and the way things work best for their goats. Sometimes,though, they may not be best for others.
We have our own minds and have to decide what is best for our goats. 
Members give advice on things and it is always best to Dam raise kids, however, if a kid isn't getting enough, we suppliment feed. Even if we keep the kid with mom and feed that extra needed. Milk replacers are mistakenly mixed by going with the instructions, making it to strong to start, causing scours and stomach issues, or, over fed. It is best to keep them a bit hungry, then to over feed. As that alone can kill them.

To All that have mentioned issues with members being pushy, please, report it, so we can investigate. I am sorry if anyone feels hurt, but sometimes, we do take things wrong, of how it was actually meant to be said. Remember, when someone writes a comment, we do not have that face of expression behind it or is isn't meant at all mean, but , may of been worded wrong and appeared to be mean, but in reality was not at all. 

We at the Goat spot, try really hard to watch out for negativity and we can't do anything about it if it isn't brought to our attention. I don't think, that all are pushing to Dam raising, but Dam raising is best, if the Dam has enough milk and a healthy udder. with no CAE ect issues


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I'm very sorry that you have felt the way you do....there is absolutely no condemnation meant with how any member chooses to keep their herds.
What works for me will not work for others and I respect that, if a question is asked I reply with how I do things and if a member chooses to follow my suit, thats their choice.
I don't know your goats the way I know my own, me offering advice is based on my own experience with mine....any advice taken should be used with discretion and your own gut feelings.
I dam raise and always will because that is the only natural way to raise kids BUT I have supplemented kids with a bottle when needed.... I use goats milk and not replacer because I milk my does and always have an emergency supply of colostrum and milk frozen each year just in case.
I also weigh kids at birth and every day after for a week to ensure they are getting enough, in the case of my March 2012 quads, even though mama was producing plenty, the 2 smallest kids were getting pushed away by the bigger 2, I not only could see this but had weights to confirm so I milked mama for a few ounces to mix with my other does milk and bottled the 2 smallest kids 3-4 times a day, I did not have to pull them but kept them with mom and sisters.....hence the advice, don't pull but supplement. You have to absolutely know your goats AND go with your gut to do what is best for your goats.
Also.... replacers are not bad, it's the fact that the mixing directions are matter of fact and most don't realize that the ratio of water/powder at times needs to be adjusted according to a kids individual needs, IF I had a need to use replacer I would BUT because I do have goats to milk, I have no need to use it.

There is never any reason why any one person who asks for help or advice should take anything personally, most of the time advice is given as a way to help and that's all it is and it's up to you to take that advice in a way that only you would know to apply it to the situation.

My use of "you" or "your" in this lengthy post is in context to any member, I'm not singling any one person out 

I truly hope that each one of you come to realize that YOU as goat owners, or would be goat owners have valuable info and insight that is very beneficial to others, agree or disagree. The ONLY wrong way to keep goats IMO is to not provide the crucial simple things they need to thrive.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

I guess I missed that thread , I dont remember seeing it at all.I also might have just glanced over it because I dont have any kidds to cuddle therefore I have none to worry about feeding.

Im sorry you feel this way Christy , and i dont want you to leave.
I read your post this morning and I totally missed the part where you said you were thinking of leaving ! :doh:

You cant leave or i'll hunt you down and come after you with a sock , and lots of them too 

So watch yourself or Riley and I will poke ya 

Why leave a perfectly good forum over one disagreement 

Comon , I thought we were all family here :grouphug:


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

I bottle raised last year becasue we didn't get our CAE tests back on our doe yet and by the time we did it was too late, we already pulled them. I also bottle raised 2 of my does as I bought them as bottle babies. I have nothing against bottle feeding. AND I have nothing against powdered formula (now THAT is the real controversy here lol) When following the directions it is safe, and I have raised several on it and they did fantastic. There are a lot of people here who heard some horror story about how someone fed powdered formula 15 years ago and the baby died . . . Formula has come a long way, and has become species specific. I know I have had absolutely ZERO problems with it. you just can't allow them to be piggy, and follow instructions based on weight. 

This year, as long as my doe will accept them, I will allow her to dam raise. She is desease free and healthy, and those kids I bought that were dam raised were huge compared to all my bottle babies (though the bottle babies seem to catch up just fine over time) 

I have never felt there was a huge debate over bottle vrs dam raised here???? I know that in a lot of cases dairy people are more inclined to pull and bottle feed for various reasons, and that meat goat owners typically allow dam raising . . . At least that is the way it seems to me.

There are reasons to pull a kid and bottle raise. CAE prevention if that is even a possability in your herd. Health of Dam. Too many kids. Protecting the udder of a show goat . . . etc . . . .

However, if there are no health concerns in the dam and she has adequate milk, I think we can all agree that dam raising is the healthiest for the kids. 

This year will be my first kidding where I will allow the dam to raise her kids, and I am excited about it. Less work for me, healthier for babies etc . . . I hope she accepts them after I pulled her kids last year. 

I think that a person need to research for themselves, get advice from trusetd individuals, and make their decisions and then take ownership of that decision.


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## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

I have read that poke post and totally love the good natured banter between you guys. Oh to be a teen again.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I too am so sorry you felt this way. That breaks my heart.

 Like we have said before, remember no one here is a VET. We go on what we have found to work.

 i will say I do not understand the pulling the babies to bottle feed them but that is BECAUSE I do not have dairy goat. If I did I am sure I would do the same thing, but I am in NO POSITION to tell anyone else what to do. It is YOUR choice and whatever you want to do that is YOUR choice. 

 I have had to bottle feed for one reason or another, but I try like heck to get them on a mom. When I bottle feed I have always used POWDER formula, and I have never had a problem with it after the first baby. It was just learning how to mix it correct.

 Again, I am so sorry for you feeling bad. 

 Also, if anyone here has a problem and feels like this us Moderators would LOVE for you to PM us and we can talk about it. We would hate to see someone go if we can help it and we would like to be able to help all of you. So please feel free to PM us and some of us will even give you our numbers so we can talk. :hug: :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:


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## FlyingFeetsFarm (Nov 28, 2012)

It is silly how how bottle raising and dam raising gets people's hair bristled. In my opinion it doesn't matter which way you raise your kids as long as the end result is the same, a healthy, happy goat.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Let those who own them raise them...but when you ask an opinion..your going to get one but I agree each should respect the others choices, whether to bottle feed or Dam raise. Or what ever ... I dont think there is a right way or wrong way.there is your way..I have read both sides and both sides can be "Strongly put" even rude at times... giving your opinion is fine..as long as it does not rub others wrong...be polite..its not hard to do : ) I Dam raise and will bottle raise when the need arises..as for what to feed your bottle baby..."I feel" if there is a risk..why take it..many raise bottle babies successfully using replacer...but I almost lost three babies to allergy to the replacer..although I have raised several on replacer without problem...but there is a risk and as stated before sometimes its due to mixing error...But this is my opinion...I will not use milk replacer...I use whole cows milk when goats milk is not available...That is how we do it...its not about wrong or right..its about each doing the best they can for their herd....share advice and respect others....each of us have something to offer...and each of us have the ability to take or reject the advice....we all have the same goal...to raise healthy happy goats..: )


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Not everry dairy goat owner pulls kids...I have dairy goats and yes, I use the milk but I won't pull kids just to benefit my need for the milk. 

Also...when it's suggested to leave kids with moms AND bottle them, it's not saying that you should assume they are getting enough from mama, thats where the knowing your own goats is crucial....you'll know how often and how much those bottles need to be given, I can't tell you that because I don't know them


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## RMADairyGoats (Jun 20, 2011)

PLease stay Christy :hug:
As most of you know, I bottle raise. I have tried dam-raising in the past, and it didn't work for me...I had wild kids, does that I couldn't milk, babies that I couldn't wean etc. It just didn't work for me personally. If you want to dam raise and can make friendly, healthy babies out of it, and you like it, then that's fine. As the owner of your goats, you can do what you want, and nothing anyone else says or does is going to change what you want to do with your breeding program. Bottle feeding was perfect for me, I liked everything about it, and still do. I'll never go back to leaving kids on mom, but that's me, and I hope you guys can respect that. 

As for milk replacers, I've never used them, and after some of the things I've heard, I probably never will. I've used whole cows milk from the store with great success. I'd never hesitate to use cows milk for my kids. We raised several of our kids on it this spring, and they grew awesome and are very healthy. 

Everyone has their reasons for dam/bottle raising, it works for some, it doesn't work for others. No need to get into a flight over the difference in opinions


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I dam raise, but I DO NOT look down at anyone who bottle raises. For me, as long as the kids are healthy and happy I couldn't care less. Bottle-raising is very necessary for everyone to know at one point -- even the dam raisers, because there will come a time a kid or two will need extra supplementation.

Please don't leave, I'm sorry you felt this way :hug: One thing that is so good about this forum is people all do things differently, and if we learn to accept and respect each other's ways of doing things, we can learn and benefit from each other :thumb:


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## pmckracken (Dec 22, 2012)

It just people's opinions, right? You have your own experience of success doing things your way...so just share it and try not to let it get to you. (; Who cares what other people think. All you can do from a great place like this is weigh the evidence and make your own decisions. Opposing opinion is a good thing...wouldn't it suck if we all agreed on everything? LOL


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## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

pmckracken said:


> It just people's opinions, right? You have your own experience of success doing things your way...so just share it and try not to let it get to you. (; Who cares what other people think. All you can do from a great place like this is weigh the evidence and make your own decisions. Opposing opinion is a good thing..*.wouldn't it suck if we all agreed on everything? LOL*


It would be nice but boring as heck. Also if we all agreed on everything TGS would be very tiny in the number of posts.


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## mjgh06 (Sep 4, 2012)

Christy, are you still with us????? You've been offline for most of the day after posting here. Hope you come back on and stay with us. Who's TrickaRoo going to have to bat around with! We need you girl!


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## Engebretsen (May 16, 2012)

I think at the end of the day, people are just passionate about boobies (goat boobies, human boobies). The passion just isn't always in the same direction. Just like gun control, abortion, etc.

At the end of the day, though, I think the most important thing is that everyone is doing their best to raise healthy and productive goats. People are sharing with each other and not condemning one another.

I agree, though, Christy, that you'll need to keep Laura in line. That one's a handful!


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Boobies ? :slapfloor::slapfloor:
Hey , if ya got em , use em  

Christy if you leave I will hunt you down , I promise you that girl 

FEAR THE SOCK CHRISTY
FEAR THE SOCK


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

The reason I didn't pull mine from the dam soon enough wasn't because I got bad advice...it was because I thought he was doing OK out there. I was wrong and I have learned my lesson! I stand by the fact that I have learned so much from this forum...and the support I got last night as my little guy was suffering was unbelievable. I'm totally ADDICTED to this forum! My husband says I spend more time with you guys than I do with him!......and he might be right!!


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Look , where in the world could you go and talk about boobs , goats , socks , nipples and whatever else in one thread ????

NOWHERE


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## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

JenVise said:


> The reason I didn't pull mine from the dam soon enough wasn't because I got bad advice...it was because I thought he was doing OK out there. I was wrong and I have learned my lesson! I stand by the fact that I have learned so much from this forum...and the support I got last night as my little guy was suffering was unbelievable. I'm totally ADDICTED to this forum! My husband says I spend more time with you guys than I do with him!......and he might be right!!


Just tell him that that's the breaks of having goats. I bet he would spend a lot of his time with horse folks under the same circumstances.


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

I might just tell him we talk about "boobies" on here.....Heck, maybe he'll decide to join!!!


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

liz said:


> Not everry dairy goat owner pulls kids...I have dairy goats and yes, I use the milk but I won't pull kids just to benefit my need for the milk.


 Liz, I am sorry, I should of reread that. I know not all dairy breeders pull the babies. I mean to say that it is mostly just the Dairy breeders that do it. I know a lot of people do it to milk and that is great and CAE Prevention. It is a choice.


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## KarmakeeFarm (Jun 3, 2012)

Oh Tricky!!!! Youra hoot girl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Trickyroo said:


> Look , where in the world could you go and talk about boobs , goats , socks , nipples and whatever else in one thread ????
> 
> NOWHERE


Don't forget about pooches, vulva's, discharge, breeding, rut, urine stained, stinky bucks who drink their pee for fun but we love them anyway LOL


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## IrishRoots (Jan 7, 2013)

My husband always says I spend more time with ya'll than I do with him! Lol


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## xymenah (Jul 1, 2011)

Engebretsen said:


> I think at the end of the day, people are just passionate about boobies (goat boobies, human boobies). The passion just isn't always in the same direction.


I think I laughed waaaay too hard at that but its so true. Someone needs to make a shirt with a goat on it from the front on the front then the back on the back with a nice full udder.y

EDIT: You know what if someone can take a good picture of a doe from straight on in the from and back on flat ground I can photoshop out the background then we can make one.


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## Engebretsen (May 16, 2012)

xymenah said:


> I think I laughed waaaay too hard at that but its so true. Someone needs to make a shirt with a goat on it from the front on the front then the back on the back with a nice full udder.y
> 
> EDIT: You know what if someone can take a good picture of a doe from straight on in the from and back on flat ground I can photoshop out the background then we can make one.


I'd wear that shirt. Maybe not to work, but i'd wear it. "Got milk?"


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## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

Don't push gravity, it'll happen soon enough girls.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

HoosierShadow said:


> Don't forget about pooches, vulva's, discharge, breeding, rut, urine stained, stinky bucks who drink their pee for fun but we love them anyway LOL


We also forgot the scabby testicles :roll:


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Oh for petes sake Christy .....
I can just see it now , we'll have to put a picture of Christy on the back of Goat Chow food and feedlots and maybe rent a hay truck and put her picture on it and it could read :

Have you seen this woman ?
her picture here
Might be seen cuddling goats that arent even hers
Is a dang good shot and might be packing a sock
Do not approach her without a goat
if you see he call this # 1800-goat-spt

Are you really going to make me do this ??
Dont dare me chicky , cause I will


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

OK,  we know all the naughty terms, so, we need to clean it up now. My delicate ears are hurting, LOL


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## IrishRoots (Jan 7, 2013)

You all are crazy...... I love it!!


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Sorry :angel2:


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## mama2cntrykids (Jan 1, 2013)

This thread is reminding me of something...I used to live behind a little 3:2 beer joint. The guy that owned it had meat goats (not sure what kind, it was WAY before my interest in goats). Well, on one wall, he had some goat horns attached to the wall. This particular wall had the men's bathroom on the other side of it. Can you guess what he had attached to the wall in the men's room???


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## RedGate (Dec 7, 2012)

I've been so busy the last few days, I hate that I missed this and the post that started it. I bottled raised kids for few years. Loved it! Life got busy and my schedule wasn't regular, so last year I started dam raising again. I love this too as it fits ME at this moment in my life. I'm a lurker on another forum and they truly jump down anyone's throat that does not raise kids on CAE prevention- even from negative animals. I've seen it go both ways. I feel the milk replacer gets a worse wrap than it deserves too. I've seen that there is a hint of truth to whole milk being better for us as several of my kids have been sensitive to straight replacers, yet not deathly ill- just pudding poops that could not be explained. Its not always mixing incorrectly. When I started replacer half and half with goats milk, they did great. Buying cows milk was far to expensive for us and took up to much space in our fridge. 

I think, Christy, that by these posts you've seen your not alone.  I don't want to see anyone to leave either! We are a great group, full of like minded people yet with each our own perspectives and takes at raising these animals. The best we can do is be respectful and kind in our posts and understanding that we will not always agree, and that's ok.


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## Bambi (Jun 10, 2012)

I bottle raised all of our goats. I was told when I started raising goats to bottle feed because it prevents them from getting CAE. Now that I have raised goats for years I know that is not necessarily true ,but I still bottle raise our goats. I like to bottle raise them because they bond better with us and they also grow larger ( in my opinion).


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## ogfabby (Jan 3, 2013)

See, this is what I hate about forums rather than speaking in person. Things get taken the wrong way or someone is in a hurry so they just post a short, to the point answer and it gets taken the wrong way. I am incredibly new to this forum and love the fact that I have other people to talk "goat" with. I am not new to goats, by any means....in my 30 years of life, there have been about 5 that have not been occupied with some sort of goat. I am an educator by nature. (I teach high school. Lol) I also have many, many years of working in a vet clinic and have an undergrad degree in vertebrate zoology. I specialized in ruminants. Believe it or not, there is more information out there for deer than there is a goat! In saying that, I believe that, on an online forum (as in a text message), many times things can look different than they are meant to look. There is a lack of voice variance as well as stress and tone of voice. I have actually looked back on some of my own replies and thought they sounded a little harsh. I don't think anyone is meaning to be anything but helpful. Animals bring out emotions in people. Some people have been taught that bottle raising is horrible while others have been taught the same about dam raising. I, for one, think whatever is best for you and your herd is what you should do. There are pros and cons to both as there is with any thing. I honestly think most people have good intentions though.


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## JaLyn (Oct 10, 2012)

ogfbaby..your right about one thing, not one single person got what i was saying..anyway no biggie..


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## nursehelg (Jul 5, 2012)

I'm sorry you were made to feel that way. I personally like to dam raise because I'm just so pro breast feeding anyway no matter if human or animal. But I even understand if you have to bottle feed or just choose to do it. That is so your right. Eventhough my kids are dam raised, they are super friendly to everyone. We spend soooo much time with them. I even read my books in their lot to just be around them. I will be placing a bench in there this spring so that I don't have to use a folding chair. If I ever have to bottle feed I hope someone will be able to help me out with that and not make me feel bad about doing it. I have powdered colostrum on hand just in case I have to use it. You just never know. So long story short, I hope you don't leave.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Im also sorry you feel this way and I apologize if I ever said anything that came across as rude or pushy to anyone on this forum. I know I can come across very matter of factly so I apologize. 

Please don't leave the board, JaLyn. You are one of the people here that keeps me laughing. I don't usually comment on the fun threads but still, you make me laugh. 

This forum is full of so many wonderful who, for the most part, have the same common goal of providing the best for our goats. We have so much fun and learn so.much from eachother. I would hope you wouldn't give it up


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## Hobbyfarmer (Sep 7, 2011)

There is nothing wrong with taking a break. Honestly I feel it's healthy. Been there myself a time or two. In any forum there are polarizing topics. After getting way too heated over the opinions of others I've learned to let it go. At some point people need to stand up for themselves and not be swayed or bullied.

Having fostered (bottle fed) many species I've also learned that it's never black and white. The learning curve is steep and often heartbreaking. The best thing people can do is remain open minded. And be willing to adjust their protocol based on the uniqueness of any given situation. 

I hope in time you can move past this. And rejoin us.


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## WarPony (Jan 31, 2010)

maple hill farm tina said:


> Actually, I've felt just the opposite. There have been recent threads that were VERY insulting to people who choose to dam raise. It's one of the reasons why I haven't been on here nearly as often as I used to be...


Same here, except it hasn;t kept me away. having a job outside my farming is what has kept me from being as involved, (amazing how having a "real" job cuts into my farming and crafting, lol). In fact when I first started here i had someone contact me privately who had some pretty insulting things to say about dam raising and anyone who was too "*******" to pull their kids like civilized people. Seriously. I just ignored them, and they went away, I deleted their rude diatribe and now I can't even remember their name, just that they called dam raisers "*******", lol. How downright tacky is THAT??

I didn't see the thread where a kid died because it wasn't bottle fed, but I have seen many many threads since I started here where everyone, including dam raisers, suggested someone either pull a kid to bottle feed it or supplement with a bottle while leaving the kid with their mom. Literally every thread I can recall where there was an issue with a kid possibly not getting enough milk had numerous people suggesting to add a bottle for the kid. I obviously don;t read every thread but i can't recall any that I personally have read where it wasn't suggested when it would be appropriate.

When I bought a week old buckling and bottle fed him and when I had a 6 week old buckling come home and I bottle fed him I never felt judged or anything by my goat spot friends. Yes, both sides are passionate about their opinion (well, some members of each side... a small minority... are, I'm not... lol) and sometimes some people from each side are just a little too aggressive/mean/even insulting about it. But the MAJORITY of them are not mean or nasty or totally insistent about it, they just say what they believe is best but also agree that you have to do what works best for you and for your goats even if it is different from what works for them.


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

i did not see the original thread - and I think it would be good if we had some reference as to it... just for reference as I would love to read through it and disect it - but also to pose questions / concerns.

I am just throwing this out there - without reading what upset you ... but THIS IS IN GENERAL FOR ALL posts / comments!

This is a public forum comprised of many people, many schools of thoughts, many ways of doing things, people from not yet owning to owning goats for 30+ years..... children to adults

1.) when asking for help / opinions - expect to get just that. It might be an agreeable or disagreeable opinion

2.) sometimes wording is taking in the wrong context of how the poster ment for it to come across (happens to me quite frequently - as i have a tendency to post from my phone and i will not type a long drawn out response - but feel a response is necessitated.)

3.) opinions are like .... "hineys" - everyone has one - take it or leave it - it is up to the reader to remark, move on, or rebuttle.

4.) NO ONE should ever feel threatened or belittled - that is just UNEXCUSABLE in my book - however, it should be looked at as if it was ment that way or read as ..... 

I have been on this forum since its inception - I was even a moderator at one time on this forum.... I WILL speak up and I WILL voice my opinion - however, to *everyone* I strongly suggest rereading your post prior to hitting send. Make sure that what you are typing will not come across confrontational. I am not saying do not voice your opinions / thoughts - as that is how we ALL learn and choose the best path for us and our herd - but I am saying look at it from the readers point before sending!! I am JUST as guilty of sending some messages that after the fact, I am like "crap that was a bit snarky - and I TOTALLY did not mean it that way!"

Just MY thoughts!


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## JaLyn (Oct 10, 2012)

Admin will you please delete this..no one is understanding my point..it had nothing to do with me..i'm not leaving..never planned on leaving..no one has offended me..it's all about i feel sometimes newbies are pushed so hard to keep babies wiht dams when at times they need to be pulled..PLEASE PLEASE JUST DELETE THIS..


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

I read it that you were upset with people being pushy with their opinions. Newbies should be able to access the situation and decide for themselves. I've had goats for three years so I'm sometimes considered a newbie. I can still use.my judgement on what I think is best for my goats. Its hard for us to give advice through the computer because we can't see first hand what is happening


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## JaLyn (Oct 10, 2012)

Thanks everyone. I wish I could of explained this better so everyone could understand what i was trying to say..but i'm just going to let it go ok..


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## mjgh06 (Sep 4, 2012)

JaLyn said:


> Admin will you please delete this..no one is understanding my point..it had nothing to do with me..i'm not leaving..never planned on leaving..no one has offended me..it's all about i feel sometimes newbies are pushed so hard to keep babies wiht dams when at times they need to be pulled..PLEASE PLEASE JUST DELETE THIS..


Christy, I guess I don't understand what you are saying either then... I re-read your original post several times after you posted the above. You did say.... "but it's to the point where i'm not sure I can stay if I don't." So I thought that was part of the issue... and I thought you felt you had been offended because you said ..." I totally support those of you that dam raise and just don't understand why you can't give that same support and respect back." ....I know part of the issue was about possible situations or a particular situation where someone needed to or should pull a kid and bottle feed, and you felt dam-raisers where pushing to keep the kid with the dam and if you spoke up as a bottle-raiser to tell them to pull the kid that you would be ignored.

I don't think I am imagining what was written, so I don't understand the above new post. It's contradicting what I read initially. I think we were all responding to your post and apologizing for coming across wrong. From what I read and the posts after, we all agree that the situation needs to be looked at individually and that we all do for the most part respect each other regardless of dam-raised versus bottle-raised. So I guess I am missing something here as well.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I think this has been a good discussion adn eye opener for some on this subject. I remember the topic and YES I knwo it was pushed ot keep the kids on mom -- I was against that from the start. So dont say everyone pushes it.

Sadly there isnt a lot of info on bottle raising -- I will try to change that here in the near future. Hopefully I can round up some of those who do bottle raise and get some information flowing. This topic has directed me towards a few of them and if you see this bottle raisers PLEASE PM me that you do so I can pick your brain for info to make in a topic to make a stickie in the Kidding Coral. 

Thanks


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## pdpo222 (Jun 26, 2011)

Everyone has their own way of doing things. I raise pygmys. I will keep the babies with their moms. I don't want to milk. Fingers don't work that good anymore. Now, that doesn't mean if a kid is doing poorly I won't pull it and bottle feed it. Of course I will. But no one should be attacked for what they do. I just don't want to bottle feed unless I absolutely have to. I didn't get into goats to bottle feed, but of course I would if a kid wasn't doing well. MY kids were always friendly because I spent a lot of time with them when they were little. I don't think you have to bottle feed them to have friendly kids. Why are they friendly? Because you are basically doing what I do, spending alot of time with them. No question is silly if it needs an answer. The answers you get are what worked for different people. Heck some vets can agree on dosages of meds. So don't ever feel silly for asking a question.


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## WarPony (Jan 31, 2010)

StaceyRoop said:


> Sadly there isnt a lot of info on bottle raising -- I will try to change that here in the near future. Hopefully I can round up some of those who do bottle raise and get some information flowing. This topic has directed me towards a few of them and if you see this bottle raisers PLEASE PM me that you do so I can pick your brain for info to make in a topic to make a stickie in the Kidding Coral.
> 
> Thanks


I look forward to this!!! I am a "dam-raiser" myself BUT in the future I plan to immediately pull and bottle raise a pair of wethers from my favourite doe and buck to be a team of packing/pulling goats. A good thread on bottle raising will really help me out with that since I have very little experience with it aside from as a supplement or for somewhat older kids who had to leave mama earlier than planned.


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## JaLyn (Oct 10, 2012)

Ok the part where i said it's to the point i'm not sure if i can stay if..what i meant was if i kept it inside i was afraid i'd end up wanting to leave. I"ve been really emotional the last few days and apparantely i've got a broom stick up my a$$ and should of jsut kept quite. I"m sorry. Either way it feels good to know ya'all like me here..sorry i've made such a mess of things..


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## KarmakeeFarm (Jun 3, 2012)

nah we dont like you-we love yah sis!!! No worries-we all get over emotional at times- I creid last night in my goaties hair-and I dont know why-guessi'm just so darn happy!!!!!


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## JaLyn (Oct 10, 2012)

I would like to add that i so respect all the info on dam raising, just soyou all know i'm considering giving dam raising a try to see what i think about it. I think it would be great if those of us that bottle raise could inform those that would like to know more about it just as i'd love for those that dam raise would share their experiences.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

we all have moments  

I really do want Bottle raisers to PM me their pointers so I can make a concise topic where people can be directed to for immediate need. 

If it turns out well I may even add it to my website  

Personally I do both -- bottle raising and dam raising - I do it at the same time with teh same kid! Its fun and works for me.


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## RMADairyGoats (Jun 20, 2011)

Stacey, I can PM you lots of info


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I'm hoping in the future to supplement all of my kids with a bottle (while keeping them on the dam), and I'm also thinking I'll pull my wethers from their dams a little early and continue to bottle-feed them so that 1) I can hold off castrating them until they're good and ready without the risk of them impregnating their sisters and 2) so I don't have to separate when I feed their sisters and dams more grain.

I'm also getting a bottle baby lamancha, so I love reading the bottle baby info


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## WarPony (Jan 31, 2010)

JaLyn said:


> Ok the part where i said it's to the point i'm not sure if i can stay if..what i meant was if i kept it inside i was afraid i'd end up wanting to leave. I"ve been really emotional the last few days and apparantely i've got a broom stick up my a$$ and should of jsut kept quite. I"m sorry. Either way it feels good to know ya'all like me here..sorry i've made such a mess of things..


Please don't feel this way!!! Your post has started a wonderful dialogue that will lead to good things for our community! It has revealed that at least sometimes some of us from both sides feel fairly attacked, and is allowing us to come together in a positive way without feeling we are being judged by others.

I, for one, am quite glad you got this off your chest and it has brought out some great info!


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Jalyn,I am here and I very flexible. My motto is SEMPER GUMBI! Whether you own animals or are raising children, YOU are the one who needs to ultimately decide what's best for them in your circumstances. Bottle verses "breast", how much grain (if any), vaccination pros and cons, culling (or not), discipline methods, disbudding or not, wethering or not, owning a buck or hiring a breeder, and more...we all make those choices based on the info and resources we have at the time. 

Heck, I came on GoatSpot and 'fessed up to cutting my poor goat's face up trying to "lance" a cyst. People were so supportive that they made me cry with relief.

So when you see the naysayers, give a listen to see if they're making any sense related to YOUR situation (They might be!). If they're not, then tune them out and DO listen to and read all the many helpful, kind, supportive folks here!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

JaLyn... I'm glad that you had that "moment" :hug: I think we all do at times :wink:

I for one am glad that you did post your thoughts and feelings, if you go back through and read each post, there is ALOT of good and useful information!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Lost Prairie said:


> Stacey, I can PM you lots of info


great

here is what Im looking for

feeding schedules and amounts for different breeds (boers, minis, standard dairy)

what kind of milk you use

There are good replacers out there and BAD ones. I want to note both.

Any special tricks for getting a kid on the bottle - either an orphan or one who you pulled right at birth.

Also do you pull at birth or do you supplement?

I will give credit to those who give special instructions and any general info will just be listed.

Hope that helps

RedGate please send me your info too  (I know there are others but I remember you saying something).


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Guys, I haven't read the whole thread, but I read this page and I'm SO happy that it has stayed friendly and in the spirit of things here.
I just want to say that I got SO much help here when I got my few-days-old baby goat last year! You guys here definitely helped us and possibly saved Pan by alerting me to the fact that I wasn't giving him enough milk at first.
Pan and I owe a great debt to this forum and it will not be forgotten!
(So, yes, bottle babies are very approved of here, or at least are certainly highly valued here  )


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## RedGate (Dec 7, 2012)

StaceyRoop said:


> RedGate please send me your info too  (I know there are others but I remember you saying something).


I am working from my phone at the moment, but should have a computer access by Sunday. I'll try to get something typed up for you then, Stacey  I am happy to help. I think the sticky post is a great idea. We each have found those little tricks that make it work for us. I think mine were learned by trial and error! If only I had had a reference page to go back to!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

ok - keep it concise and to the points I outlined above.

The plan is that it should be an open topic so you can then make replies and questions can be asked etc. But I wanted the first post to have as much basic information thats easy for people to read and get the priorities taken care of in an emergency. So if you want to add details or other information then in a reply would be best. 

I hope you get the idea.


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## Marty1876 (Jan 12, 2013)

Wow, loads of comments.

I bottle raise. And, I've aways bottle raised every single goat except 2 so far. I like them to know who's in charge, and thats mama human. My babies get every bit of colosturm from mama the first week, then they get the next weeks milk from me immediatly after milking my tested diesease free animals. Then, they continue to get mamas milk or formula, however it works out for my milking needs. 

There are some good reasons to bottle raise.
1. Bonding with your future milker/show goat/pet - and its forever
2. Keeps those perfect show goat teats in tip top condition and shape
3. Insures you know exactly how much milk your kids are getting
4. Releases mama from the pressures of motherhood for quicker return
to her youthful vigor (mama work is tiring!)
5. Allows you to have all the milk for your family, which maybe why you
have goats in the first place 
6. You bought a promising doeling, or rescued a weak kid, or any other
young unweaned baby, and if you don't give it milk, it will suffer 
greatly and possibly die if its very young

Now, I'm all for natural motherhood, and I have often let first time freshoners raise their kids. If you don't milk, or have any other reasons to feed a bottle, thats great! I'm a miker and cheesemaker, and the primary reason I have my does is their star milking performances allowing us to be up to eye level in goat milk daily. For me, that's what its all about. If your answer is differnt, that's good too.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Marty, I'm not sure how you get that momma/boss thing accomplished .
With my super-sweet Baby Pan we figured out who was in charge after just a couple days and it was so definitely Pan LOL.
I love that guy, but after the first two nights he was sleeping in my bed with me. He determined when I slept, when I got up, when he got fed, when I was allowed to leave the house, wether or not I could visit my parents (which was NO, Never, cause they don't let goats in the house).
I'm not joking and I don't even wish I was. I love my Pan. But I guess maybe he was a little spoiled .
Otherwise I agree with you on every point!


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Haha! Gotta love the Pan man!


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Woodhavenfarm said:


> Haha! Gotta love the Pan man!


Patti's Mom would say that! LOL


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## PiccoloGoat (Sep 10, 2008)

I didn't realise bottle raising was frowned upon


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

Wow, I've been busy lately, and just now see this post. Don't think I recall the other topic either. I dam raise, but, I don't think I've ever disparaged anyone that bottle feeds. I don't have time to bottle raise all my kids, and mine are very friendly without. I have had a doe or two on occasion that I decided I would bottle raise her doelings. They were raising "wild" girls! I also have a new rule...no doe has to raise more then 2 kids. I will in future bottle raise the rest. It's too hard on the doe. And, I have a lot of trips/quads for some reason. Someone said something about letting "mother nature" take it's course, and I replied that I will fight her every step of the way. 

What I've heard about milk replacer, was a study that was done by a large goat dairy. They raised on replacer, and tracked the production of those does. It was found that although they grew well, they did not "hold up" over the long haul. Most were dropped from the dairy herd by the time they were 2. I'm sure replacers are better then they were 10-15 years ago...but really...the better products are not that much of a savings. So, I just use whole cow milk. Although if I raised everyone on the bottle, I would probably use replacer at 50%, milk 50%, which is how I raised my Alpaca bottle babies.

When you come right down to it. We can give advice and relate our experiences. But, the farmer is the one to evaluate their kids and see that they are getting enough. I wish you would post which thread you are talking about because I must have missed that one.

I have a doe that had triplets this year. Her kids were pulled last year by her previous owner. I wanted her to feed them. She looked at me like "what, are you serious?". So, when one of the doelings was looking smaller then the others, I got her on the bottle. Now she is larger then the other doe kid that was dam raised. So, now I'm feeding the other doeling. 

However, I have heard someone say they wanted to bottle feed but could only do it twice a day, and she had to go away for a couple of days and wanted to know if she'd be alright! That was a long time ago. When I bottle feed I treat it like a job...the kid is always first! 

I'm sorry you felt you were being attacked, and, I hope you stay.


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## DDFN (Jul 31, 2011)

StaceyRoop said:


> great
> 
> here is what Im looking for
> 
> ...


I will try to send you my routine later today or tomorrow.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

PiccoloGoat said:


> I didn't realise bottle raising was frowned upon


Not by everyone


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## realfarmgirl (Feb 26, 2011)

Had to weigh in after I found this topic. I raise dairy goats, and my family has a cow dairy. In cow dairies, calves are not allowed to nurse (most of the time), because of the risk of bacterial infection (mastitis) and the potential injury that a bumping calf can cause to mama's udder (which again can be a cause for mastitis). 

With that experience, when I got dairy goats, I decided to bottle raise my kids. Also, my first goat was an auction baby, and she needed to be bottle fed. I didn't have other goats, so I got her milk replacer. She did fine - although she scoured for quite a while. The second kid I bought was not weaned yet, and living on a large dairy, she was also bottle fed - but was raised with tons of other kids and the "bottle" feeding was more like a bar room brawl for the nipple on a 5 gallon pail! I choose to get a baby that was not weaned because I felt it would help us bond (of course the cattle-call feeding experience that the kid had kind of hindered this because her only motivation in life was getting to the food and eating as much of it as possible). She too was fed a milk replacer, and had no issues. - - - Side note: You might think, why wouldn't you feed cow milk since I have it on hand - I read through many books, articles, studies, etc. and found that cow milk was much lower in fat that goat milk, and the transmission of Johnes was also possible. Without adequate fat, it would be difficult for the kids to be thrifty, which is the same reason why milk replacers are often inadequate (fat content is often too low).

When my first babies arrived, I bottle fed them. I allowed (just as we do with our cattle) mom to clean the babies. I also decided to let the babies nurse for a few days on my first timers, because I wanted to make sure they knew how to care for their babies, in case they kidded when I wasn't around. Let me tell you the downside on this - trying to bottle feed after baby knows that mommy has milk can be an epic battle!!!  But, it can be done with patience, and separation from mommy. Once I had goat's milk, I fed my babies what mama gave. The key in bottle feeding, like many have posted, is to make sure baby's belly is full, but not tight. Feeding schedules and amounts will vary, and as you go you learn how to judge this better, but generally the kids require at least two feedings a day, and to start, should be eating between 6 and 10oz. For example, my first auction baby was feed 4x's a day, but the kids I raise now are fed twice a day. (Again, all dependent on the kid and your preference. 2x's a day is a standard in the cow dairy world, and I have found it works for goats too.)

I did have a bad experience with milk replacer on a newborn baby that was rejected by the mom. (Someone else owned the doe, I took the baby.) At that time, I did not know anything about the bloat problems that can occur when using formula, and unfortunately, at a week old the little girl was doing fine, and the next morning she was barely alive. Lesson learned. One way I have found to help deal with bloating in these little guys is to make sure they get to run around for 30min - 1hr (once they are able to do so) before confining them. 

I hope this helps someone out...


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## Abra (Aug 11, 2012)

Hey! You can't go anywhere! LOL
I am going to be bottle-raising my babies when they are born in April! And if you leave, there will be less peeps to give advice heaven forbid anything should go wrong?!

And I am proud the fact that I am going to be bottle-raising! 
And I'm working too, but I am a school-bus driver, so I can come home in the middle of the day 
As a matter of fact, I can't WAIT to start! 
Yay!!!!!!


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

I do both. I practice CAE prevention, therefore I pull the kids from infected does and feed pasteurized milk (and colostrum). I love my girls and do not want to keep raising infected goats, and I sure don't want to get rid of my + does unless the CAE is causing them pain, so pulling their kids is the only way I can do both. 

I have Rheumatoid arthritis, which is similar to CAE. If there was a method to have kept me from getting RA when I was a little kid, I know my parents would have done it. If I had known a way to prevent my youngest son from being born with it, I would have done that also. There is a way to prevent my future goats from having it, so I chose to bottle kids from infected does. 

When I ran a cattle/goat dairy, calves and kids were pulled at birth and raised on a bottle. That was for economic reasons. 

For my CAE negative does, I leave the kids on them. Its easier for me. I just make sure I go in and play with the kids daily.

I have used kid (or lamb) milk replacer before with great success. I have fed it 100% milk replacer or mixed with pasteurized goat milk. I prefer not to use store bought milk because of the expense. (almost 5.00 a gallon up here)

Even my dam raised kids are given their first colostrum from a bottle so I know 100% how much they got. Makes me feel better.

I also practice cocci prevention. Bottle feeding the kids makes it much easier and less stressful to medicate the kids by simply putting it in their bottle once a day for the treatment period.

Every one is different. What works for me this year may not work for me next year. What works at my farm may not work at another persons farm. Like us, our goats are also individuals and what works great for 1 goat, may not work well on a herdmate.

People tend to be passionate about their way of doing things. I have raised horses, and horse people are worse than any other type of livestock owner when it comes to opinions. Maybe seeing all that has made me more tolerant of other people and their differences. I hate being preached to. I hate having others shove their ideas down my throat as "the only way". I will listen to others ideas and decide if it would work for me. I might even try it if it sounds better. However, I know what I am comfortable with. Unless anothers methods are cruel, abusive or neglectful, they can do what they want and I will leave them alone. I might give my opinion and why I do it differently, but I will not knock anothers way of doing things. I try to keep an open mind.


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## lacylou1 (Feb 6, 2013)

I realize this is an old thread, but I have bottle raised and dam raised baby goats. The times I bottle fed it was out of necessity, a small doe had too many kids to feed, a small kid that was weak and couldn't compete, a doe that refused to allow her babies to nurse. it is hard work, it is a commitment. It can be very rewarding. I had a bottle fed baby I kept for years that was like a dog following me around our field and would always come when I called her. That being said, even though I have more time now and better goats, i plan on the doe raising her own babies unless there are extreme circumstances. My goats are primarily for pets and to clean out brush, but I don't want to bottle feed babies unless I know they will go to a good pet home. Probably everything i have said has already been said and probably better than I can say it. But it should be up to each person to decide what is best for them.


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## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

Zarafia said:


> Marty, I'm not sure how you get that momma/boss thing accomplished .
> With my super-sweet Baby Pan we figured out who was in charge after just a couple days and it was so definitely Pan LOL.
> I love that guy, but after the first two nights he was sleeping in my bed with me. He determined when I slept, when I got up, when he got fed, when I was allowed to leave the house, wether or not I could visit my parents (which was NO, Never, cause they don't let goats in the house).
> I'm not joking and I don't even wish I was. I love my Pan. But I guess maybe he was a little spoiled .
> Otherwise I agree with you on every point!


Good to know I'm not the only one who lets their goaty baby run their life!

Peggy Sue officially slept in a box on my nightstand, but every night when the DH fell asleep she'd climb into bed with me. She's 2.5 now, and just had her first babies and she still lives in the house and goes everywhere with me. She loves rides in the car, she gets regular trips to the park, and if my mom wants me to visit for a few days she knows there will be a goat in the den.

Now I have two sweet little babies running around my family room, jumping on my cat, and tormenting my Peggy Sue like she did me. If you think it's hard to get somebody to let one goat in their house, try three!


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