# Frustrated....



## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

Things aren't going so well right now... Capri was giving me 2 gallons a day (and still wasn't completely full!), but when I weaned her kids, she dropped down to 1 gallon per day. Not so bad; but then two weeks ago, she got sick, and is now completely dry.  Heidi is my Saanen/La Mancha cross who gives horrid tasting milk, and I have been trying to dry her up for three weeks now. That goat WON'T dry up!!! I am at my wits end if with her! 
I just started milking Penny, my PB Nubian doe, and I have been extremely dissapointed with her. :sigh: Practically no capacity, and her teat orifices are _tiny_!! Ivy (another PB Nubian) at least, has been hanging in there, and is still heroically giving 3/4 gallon while on not-so-great grass hay (the good stuff won't be delivered until next week).

So here I be: frustrated. I am so tired of dealing with peoples cast-offs in the goat world. I know I will keep Heidi, no matter what; she's my special girl, and she gives fabulous meat kids. But what should I do about Capri and Penny? Capri is a sweetheart, but one of her perks is that once you wean her babies, she drops in production. Last year, she went from 2 gallons per day, to 3/4 gallon per day. And when you keep her babies on her, and only milk once a day, she will only let you have half of her milk. The other half she stubbornly holds back for the kids. Penny on the other hand, despises me. She refuses to be touched, runs if you go near her, doesn't take care of her kids well, etc. She was given to me by a friend, so I kind of feel obligated (or tied, take you pick) to keep her...

If I sold both Capri and Penny, I could always buy a better doe (such as a doeling from one of Saada's FF's). Or I could keep both of them this year, breed them to a Boer buck and then at least have some meat cross kids before selling them. Any ideas? I usually sell milk to pay for the goat's hay and grain, but at this rate, I may have to stop soon! :help:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

You can always sell Heidi's milk to soapmakers or even to farmers wanting to bottle calves or feed pigs.

I know what you mean as far as having goats that aren't the producing type...Though mine are pets, I do like the milk from the 3 does that I normally freshen each year...next year it will be just 2 does to freshen and the other 3 are hayburners.


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## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

I had thought about that with Heidi's milk, but there really isn't anyone around who wants it, and she only gives a 1/2 gallon per day. If she gave more, I would just buy a bottle calf and raise it on her milk, but it's not enough.


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## Sans Gene Goats (Jul 2, 2010)

Sounds like Ivy and Heidi are your keepers and everyone else could go. 

On the one from a friend, I would call her up, tell her very nicely but clearly the doe she gave you isn't working out and has to go. If she is a good friend she'll understand, and either take her back or accept you have to sell her. If there is weirdness about the money part of selling, work it out before you sell her (know this one from experience!) so there is no hard feelings later. 

It stinks when we have to decide whether to keep 'em and accept they really are just pets, or cull and have producing goats we love as pets. There is no right or wrong in that - only what is right for you! :hug:


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## RMADairyGoats (Jun 20, 2011)

I think if they are not giving you what you want, and they cost a lot of $ to keep, than you should consider selling your girls. But there is nothing wrong with you loving and wanting to keep them as pets. :hi5:


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## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

> On the one from a friend, I would call her up, tell her very nicely but clearly the doe she gave you isn't working out and has to go. If she is a good friend she'll understand, and either take her back or accept you have to sell her. If there is weirdness about the money part of selling, work it out before you sell her (know this one from experience!) so there is no hard feelings later.


 [sigh] I know that's what I should do... I just dread it... I will actually have to explain it to two people: Penny's former owner, who gave her to me, and to the person who owned her BEFORE my friend gave her to me! Both like to stay updated on how she's doing, but neither one can keep her. I think the selling part is what is really bothering me. Since Penny was given, it almost doesn't seem right to sell her and get money, since I didn't pay a cent for her. :chin:

One more reason as to why I am drying Heidi up, is that she is really hard to milk! She has ND sized teats, and she doesn't let her milk down easily. So when I'm done milking her, I always have to take some pain killer because my hands and wrists hurt. I really don't need carpal tunnel this early in life! I broke my left wrist two years ago (horse accident), and have never gotten full use restored to it (oh yeah, and that's my dominant hand!), so I have to be pretty picky about my milkers. I noticed that milking Penny is giving my left hand some pain too, but so far it hasn't been as bad as when milking Heidi.



> I think if they are not giving you what you want, and they cost a lot of $ to keep, than you should consider selling your girls. But there is nothing wrong with you loving and wanting to keep them as pets.


Very good advice Lost Prairie. I really do like Capri; she's sweet and gentle, and gives triplets pretty consistently. If I keep her, then she will most likely be a permanent brood doe, and her kids will be meat kids. Penny is a different story. I don't like her, and she doesn't like me. She had two beautiful kids this year, but I have no idea yet as to whether or not her daughters will be hard to milk like she is.


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

I feel for you... :hug: I know it is not an easy decision, one that tears on your mind.

This is what I might do: Keep Heidi and use her as a breeder for meat babies. This gives you something and the previous owners will be happy too. 

If you need the milk to suppliment your cost of hay, then sell the rest and buy a couple of nice milkers. Definitely get rid of Penny. She may be happier with someone esle. I have noticed here that some goats who just do not like one person, love another! Capri would be better of in a home where they do not need so much milk. 

JMO...hope you can make your decision with as little head and heart ache as possible!


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## Amos (Oct 2, 2008)

I guess if it was me, I'd breed them to a nice buck and keep a doe kid from each, then send them down the line. 
Like Itchy said, some goats don't like certain people. I had a goat that was terrified of me (guess because I'm a guy?) based on past neglect but is doing much better with her new female owner. These goats may not be right for you, but they might for someone else.


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## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

> I feel for you... I know it is not an easy decision, one that tears on your mind.
> 
> This is what I might do: Keep Heidi and use her as a breeder for meat babies. This gives you something and the previous owners will be happy too.
> 
> ...


Yes, this has been a very hard decision; that's why I posted it on here! I needed some advice from my fellow goat friends! :grouphug:

I'm still not positive on what to do yet... I KNOW I should sell both Penny and Capri, and buy some replacement milkers that will do better. But it's one thing to say it; it's a whole 'nother thing to do it! I have been eyeing these girls on Craigslist... http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/grd/2491508338.html
But I don't know if I should do it; I don't want to be buying someones cast-off's AGAIN; but I do need milk, stat. :scratch: If I don't start getting a regular income before fall, I just may end up going under and having to sell all my animals off.  I'm planning on breeding all my does to a Boer buck, so I can sell the kids, but meanwhile, I do still need someway to stay afloat through the winter...



> I guess if it was me, I'd breed them to a nice buck and keep a doe kid from each, then send them down the line.
> Like Itchy said, some goats don't like certain people. I had a goat that was terrified of me (guess because I'm a guy?) based on past neglect but is doing much better with her new female owner. These goats may not be right for you, but they might for someone else.


 I bred them to a super nice buck last fall, and Penny's doeling is just beautiful. I'm keeping her. Capri however, isn't purebred (only 3/4 Nubian), so I didn't keep any of her kids. Penny was a neglect case, three owners ago, but I don't know if that would have any influence on her behavior. She seems to like guys better, and she is always ecstatic when her previous owner comes by to deliver hay to me (he only had her for a year though). Don't know what Penny has against me... But we certainly haven't hit off!


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## RMADairyGoats (Jun 20, 2011)

I would ask for pictures of their udders and how much they produce. If it is not what you what/like, than don't buy them. If you like them you could sell both your does and buy two of those. Just another take on it  :hi5:


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## Amos (Oct 2, 2008)

I'd say buying a Saada kid is a good idea because you'd know what to expect for her - but, it would be that much longer until she freshens. I agree with Lost Prairie, maybe look into these two does, their history, udders, testing & price. Never know, might be something good!


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## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

I e-mailed the owners; now I'm just waiting for a reply. Another thought would be to buy some Boers instead... If I keep Capri, she'll just be used to provide meat babies, so I might as well just buy a PB Boer! There's a person near me selling 4 really nice female Boers (the dam, and her triplet doelings) for $500... I'll wait to hear back from the Nubian people first though. 

I can't sell Capri for a few weeks yet, since she looks like a skeleton.  Some strange bug (as in illness, not an actual insect) has been going around the area, and many people's goats have been getting sick. Thankfully Capri was the only one in my herd to get it; but that is why she is dry now. And I can't sell Penny until either her kids are old enough to wean, or I get them to take a bottle. So it could be, that by the time both girls are sold, the Nubians and the Boers will all be sold. Hmm.


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## GoatJoy (Aug 9, 2010)

Amos said:


> I guess if it was me, I'd breed them to a nice buck and keep a doe kid from each, then send them down the line.


That's probably what I would do. I'm kind of in the same boat. Some of the girls I purchased (my first does) I got off Craigslist and they were someone else's cast offs. I can't see myself ever selling one of them, but her dam has a better udder! Most of the girls I have I really have no idea how their udder will turn out and the bucks I have, I have never seen their dams udder! :GAAH: So I think what we'll do is purchase one of those fancy bucks next year, keep our other bucks to see what they put out, and just improve what we have..We also bought a doe last week that's waaaay better quality and are picking up her daughter tues who is just amazing! Honestly, I've learned you don't want to buy from people who don't want to mess with udder improvement. A lot of folks in my area breed for color or what they think is good...but I like to breed for a good udder. So it's best to do your homework I guess. :thumbup:


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

If you had not accepted the "gift" of a doe, what would have happened to said doe? You have an investment in the doe, in any case. The purchase price of a goat is usually the smallest part of keeping a goat, anyway. So regardless, you are certainly within your right to try mitigate your investment, by a sale. If the "giving" person cannot take the animal back...it shouldn't be anyones business but yours...how much you get for it. jmo


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## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

If I hadn't taken her, she would have gone to the stockyard auction. The meat buyers are fast bidders there, and I didn't want her to have that fate. She's got good genetics, and she has Kastdemur lines, but I just can't keep her.... She and I just aren't compatible.


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## RMADairyGoats (Jun 20, 2011)

Kastademer has AWESOME LaManchas! :drool: Who is she out of? I dig their doe Bad News! :thumbup:


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## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

Hmm, I think I'm losing my marbles! Now that I look at her pedigree, it's not Kastdemur that she has, it's Crown Hill. I must have been thinking of one of my other does.... :roll: It's been a long week, okay? 

But yes, their La Manchas are jaw dropping! I love them!


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## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

She's out of Cove Orchard Swiss Miss, but her dam's line is mostly Crown Hill.


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## Paige (Oct 14, 2010)

If you were in ohio or somewhere around here I would take capri off your plate. I have liked that doe from the first time I looked at you website. Maybe its cause she is an obe cross with floppy ears. What is better that that?


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## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

That's why I got her in the first place.  I love Obers; used to have one named Alexis, and I honestly have to say she was my top favorite goat I have ever had. Unfortunately, she gave bad tasting milk, so she had to be sold. But when I saw Capri (who is 1/4 Oberhasli), I knew I had to have her. If I couldn't have a purebred Ober, I at least wanted a goat that looked similar! :wink:


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