# 5yr. Sannan doe massive weight loss thick blood in urine.



## Bethany Paulsen (May 14, 2021)

I've owned and raise goats for years without incident. I've normally been able to sort out any issues in my little herd but I'm stumped.

My girl had triplets in March and usually losses some weight while in milk. She always is something of a blood mess for a few weeks after birth. We are now in May and I notice a few weeks ago blood spots.I narrowed it down to Gertie I treated her for a urine infection and bloat as she was very tight. I've noticed two lumps on her sides that feel like they're bone but she hasn't had any major trauma so I ruled out broken bones and she's the head of the herd so I know nobody's beating on her.







Now she looks like a walking skeleton and I'm finding thick blood spots after every move. Last night I noticed she would crouch like she needed to pee but nothing would come out.

I'm afraid of losing her as she is the last of a line my grandfather cultivated and his lines have been so dispersed and lost that I would never find them again. He is on death's door so I don't feel like he's coherent enough to help me with this problem. And I don't want to distress him by letting him know that one of the last of his line is going down.

Please help!


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

What is her temp? Did you have to assist with the birth? She may have an infection


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

Has she had a fecal done since kidding?


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## Bethany Paulsen (May 14, 2021)

She didn't need any help with the births, they went smoothly. Somebody lost my thermometer😠 for me so I don't have one at the moment and she's not scheduled for a fecal test till next month. But we keep everybody on a regular worming schedule and we moved their pasture every two days.


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Definitely get a fecal. Deworming on a schedule often produces parasite resistance, so maybe the dewormer isn't working properly. 

I have a doe this year that has gotten super thin after kidding due to parasites and I am having a terrible time getting her dewormed since I've discovered that many of the chemical dewormers just aren't working for me any more.


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Oh and check her FAMACHA too, she could be anemic.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Is the blood coming from her pee or lady parts? Do get her temp as it helps determine what her body is doing. 
Is she eating and acting well other wise? 
Poop is normal? 
Famacha? 
Definitely a fecal.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

By the way welcome to the forum. You came to a place trusted for helping without fear of judgment or harshness ... 😁


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## Bethany Paulsen (May 14, 2021)

I pulled her from the rest of the herd so that I can check for fecal matter. Where they were all running together I can't guarantee which is hers or that she is this pooping. I don't use chemical wormers much anymore and I doubt anything will survive my worming regiment. At least anything in her stomach or digestive tract should be killed for the most part every time I worm them. I'm picking up a new thermometer today. I believe I will pull some blood on her and send it off.

There for a while she was very withdrawn and subdued but she's doing a lot better now. She has a healthy appetite and the brightness is back in her eyes since I treated her for a urinary infection.


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Doing a biosecurity test for Johnes and CAE is a good idea...The lumps...where are they located? Sometimes the ribs feel very lumpy and strange when they're thin. I've noticed this on several skinny goats. They don't feel the way you would expect ribs to feel.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

What do you use for dewormer? I use herbs and essential oils and have had great success here with those. Sounds like you're in top of things. I find in stressful times...which can be weening the kids, crazy weather, illness...even with my close attention to dosage of herbs and oils..we can have a worm bloom. This is where I do acute dosing to get a head of it. It is rare I ever pull out chemical dewormers.
Pulling blood is great to see what's going on there.
There is the cecum..which bumps out just infront of the hip area..its round and seen when goats get thin..possibly that is the area you see th lump? 
I love Saanen. We raised them for a time. I still have one doe and two mini saanen..love their personalities ....


Ugh thought I send this hours ago lol


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Unless you you mean the area just behind her front leg..rub area? (I see somthibg there in the pic) that maybe muscle over bone there. 
Here is a chart showing where the cecum is.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

This?


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

happybleats said:


> This?


So what _is_ that? Is that the bottom of the rib cage or...? Don't want to derail this thread, but I've seen that bump in several underweight goats, now, and I'm curious about what I'm seeing. My anatomy knowledge isn't so great.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I think it maybe just muscle over rib.


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

happybleats said:


> I think it maybe just muscle over rib.


Makes sense!


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

happybleats said:


> Is the blood coming from her pee or lady parts? Do get her temp as it helps determine what her body is doing.
> Is she eating and acting well other wise?
> Poop is normal?
> Famacha?
> Definitely a fecal.


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

How is your goat doing?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

A vet may be wise she needs help.
Fecal for worms and cocci to see where she is at.

How is her inner lower eyelid coloring?


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## brigieboo (Apr 8, 2021)

happybleats said:


> I think it maybe just muscle over rib.












look at this image that she posted, i think its the lump in this one thats shes talking about..... it looks like its farther back then the ribs and in the stomach, right? it could be another kid? I'm not too experienced or anything, but right before my goats give birth i'll see the kids heads pushing against their sides and there is a visible lump like this, only its a lot smaller and not so noticeable because my goats were way plumper than she is before giving birth.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Awe..I see it now. Sometimes when a goat is really skinny and have muscle loss things can poke out..a vet check would be wise


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## Bethany Paulsen (May 14, 2021)

Sorry I've been gone so long! She doing ok we think she has flukes🤢 as they are common in this area. Were just playing the waiting game now as the vet didnt have anything to get rid of the flukes at his office. I'm hoping to receive meds this weekend.

She is anemic sorry I forgot to mention that she has very little pigment around her eyes, mouth, and nose. The thick blood has stopped for now, although her pee still has a red or orange tinted to it. I'm guessing the blood was coming from her lady parts, and she is almost 2months exactly from her kidding date. I've started her on another bout of bactracillin G and am giving her electrolytes in her water she's on all she can eat fresh forage and alfalfa hay, with a rashen of mixed grains each morning and night. I've started drying her up to try and relieve some of the demands on her body. 

The lump is low and at the back end of her rib cage. Her right side is the worst but the left side is noticeable as well. I doubt very much she has another kid in her as she has never had more that 2 kids prior to this year.


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## Bethany Paulsen (May 14, 2021)

Caileigh Jane Smith said:


> Doing a biosecurity test for Johnes and CAE is a good idea...The lumps...where are they located? Sometimes the ribs feel very lumpy and strange when they're thin. I've noticed this on several skinny goats. They don't feel the way you would expect ribs to feel.





It's kind of on her ribcage.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Fluke definitely can cause blood in urine. Didn't even think about that. Ivomec plus or valbazen is only chemical treatment. I'm sure you vet knows this.
She needs anemia treatment while you wait. 
Red cell (6 cc per 100#)or injectable iron 4 cc per 100#) do one or the other once a day for a week then weekly until you see color in her famancha) injectable iron can cause a reaction. Have epi or large dose of Benadryl on hand, ready to give.
B 12 injectable 4 cc per 100#
30 cc if 50/50 acv/water once a day
Probiotics daily 3-4 hours after other treatments 
High protien feed, alfalfa and safe leaves, vines, cedar and pine. 
She is thin for her being bred so you want to be sure she has all she needs for kids. 
I would be feeding her 2 x a day a carrot and celery juice. Juice 2 carrot and 2 celery 2 times a day. If you don't have a juicer..you canuse a blender to blend with water...strain the juice. Try to get 60 cc 2 times a day. You can add a few cloves of raw garlic. 
If you have quality essential oils..Myrrh is great to address liverfluke. 
Tummy Tamer never hurts
1 teaspoon each
Cayenne pepper
Ginger
Cinnamon 
Slippery elm 
Acv
Molasses
20-30 cc water..blend and drench. 2x day


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## Bethany Paulsen (May 14, 2021)

happybleats said:


> Fluke definitely can cause blood in urine. Didn't even think about that. Ivomec plus or valbazen is only chemical treatment. I'm sure you vet knows this.
> She needs anemia treatment while you wait.
> Red cell (6 cc per 100#)or injectable iron 4 cc per 100#) do one or the other once a day for a week then weekly until you see color in her famancha) injectable iron can cause a reaction. Have epi or large dose of Benadryl on hand, ready to give.
> B 12 injectable 4 cc per 100#
> ...



Thank you!!!! I didn't know some of those. The grain has some molasses in it should I give her more or do you think that is good enough?


happybleats said:


> Fluke definitely can cause blood in urine. Didn't even think about that. Ivomec plus or valbazen is only chemical treatment. I'm sure you vet knows this.
> She needs anemia treatment while you wait.
> Red cell (6 cc per 100#)or injectable iron 4 cc per 100#) do one or the other once a day for a week then weekly until you see color in her famancha) injectable iron can cause a reaction. Have epi or large dose of Benadryl on hand, ready to give.
> B 12 injectable 4 cc per 100#
> ...


Thank you so much!!! I didn't know about some of these remedies I'm looking forward to trying some of them. She does have a little bit of molasses in her grain do you think I'll be over doing it with the Molasses if I put it in any of these mixes?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

The tummy tamer shouldn't push her over the edge with molasses. I prefer to use black strap as it offers other goodies she needs over the sweeter molasses.


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## brigieboo (Apr 8, 2021)

did the vet say anything abt the lump?


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