# Vitamin and mineral during pregnancy?



## Sether55 (Dec 5, 2014)

I have been doing a lot of research on different vitamins and minerals and I am looking for opinions and other methods on pregnancy methods others use. 
*Copper and Selenium- *I have come to the conclusion between online research and other breeders to give copper (4 grams) and selenium (1cc per 40lbs) before breeding and again in the 3-4 months of pregnancy as I am in a very selenium deficient and goats need a lot of copper and they both work hand in hand. These two nutrients are critical in kids I have found personally. Kids not administered selenium for a month due to back order were stunted compared to kids administered it days after birth. Does showing copper deficiency as well produced kids that have turned out smaller. 
*Iodine- *One of my does gave birth to a still born female and a healthy male. Iodine deficiency can result in dead females but live males due to the greater need of it by females in their thyroid gland. It could be coincidental but perhaps not. Toxicity is easy to achieve and one method to administer it is by rubbing 7% on the tailweb of a goat. I plan to rub betadine(10% idodine) once a week as to not overdose but to cover any deficiencies. 
*Zinc- *I have multiple bucks showing severe deficiency currently. I also have had does this summer show signs of deficiency and I added it once a day for a week and then weekly for a bit and the effects disappeared. My feed does not cantain any and I am wondering if once a week is sufficient during pregnancy which is the plan I am following for the fear of stunted male kids.
*Vitamin A- *I plan to add vitamin A (2400mcg/8000iu) once a week during the last weeks of pregnancy just to boost the levels of it in colostrum because kids have small reserves of it and obtain it through colostrum. 
*Vitamin D- *I have also read it is wise to add vitamin D the last few weeks of pregnancy to prevent milk fever because it is essential to the balance between calcium and phosphorus. My question for this one is how often if I plan to use capsules which are 10,000iu. Because it is not a common deficiency I was thinking once a week would be sufficient.
*Vitamin E- *I also plan to give vitamin E (180mg/400iu) once weekly during gestation and then once daily for the last 3 weeks of pregnancy from suggestion of Fias Co Farm and its co-partnership with selenium and benefits to skin, development of the fetus, and kids lack of reserve of it.

Please leave your thoughts/methods/minerals/vitamins/sources of them you use with your pregnant does


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You can get zinpro for a zinc supplement. Don't put the liquid iodine on the tail. It isn't a good iodine for that. You'd be better off putting out a cobalt block and kelp. You seriously need a Cobalt block. You may want to consider getting Replamin Plus. It is a vitamin and mineral gel given weekly with a 5 day loader dose to start.


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

This is a lot of separate supplementation apart from your regular loose mineral. Look into changing your loose mineral to take care of some of this. Loose mineral mixes vary immensely one from another.

There is no "best" mineral mix, but there is almost always a "better for my needs in my location" option.

Here is the tag for my favorite mineral mix. It is free choice. It has 125,000 IU/lb Vitamin D-3. I know because I wrote and asked.

https://www.ourcoop.com/productcatalog/Main/PdfViewer.aspx?el=58310

Here is another good one. Click on Onyx. Note the different levels, reflecting the different needs of different locales.

http://www.orangegrovecoop.com/images/E0209301/Minerals.pdf

This one is great for cobalt and iodine (and other minerals) Click on nutrient guarantees

http://www.sweetlix.com/products/C14A34/goats.aspx?load=123

I've recently started this supplement. I added it to the second mineral mix above (the Onyx)

https://www.amazon.com/TruCare-Top-dress-Trace-Mineral-Livestock/dp/B01K5U7UW0

I also provide a mxture of kelp and ground flaxseed free choice.

These are all good minerals that you may or may not be able to buy. Just for your comparison as you shop around.

Replamin Plus is supposed to be excellent. I don't use it because I need to be able to put supplements out in buckets for them to deal with rather than me giving individual supplementation to individual goats.

But really my original point was that your mineral mix should be able to handle most of your planned supplementation. If you need to supplement all of that separately, I'd shop for a better mineral mix.


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

This was a really nice thread you might like.

https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/zinc-supplement.193972/


----------



## Davon (Sep 22, 2017)

I like to keep things very simple. I give oral selenium about 4 times a year, a copper bolus 1-2 times a year, and a free choice mineral high in selenium. It's worked great for my goats so far, so I don't see a reason to make it more complicated. ;-)


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

@Davon

What mineral mix do you use that is so high in selenium?

I'm interested, because what I hear you saying is that your mineral is sufficient for everything your area needs except for providing some extra copper and selenium. is that correct? Because that is great.

I have very close friends in NC. I don't know where you are in the State, but I'd love to know what you use so I can tell them about it, in case it would meet their needs and be available to them.


----------



## Sether55 (Dec 5, 2014)

I have not offered a loose mineral... ever. Hence why most of my goats are deficient most likely. When I first started with goats I was told it was unnecessary to add it but I’m starting to see that that was not good advice.


----------



## Redbarngoatfarm (Jul 8, 2015)

After years and years of practice, I have found my niche with good loose minerals, copper bolus 4 times a year, worming only as needed...
I make special treats for pregnant does made of vit e, d, and tums for Calcium and feed daily last 3-4 weeks of pregnancy, they also get grain from breeding time to kidding.
Newborn Kids get selenium, and 3, 6 and 9 week cocci prevention treatment with Corid.
CDT shots at 9 weeks with booster in 3 weeks.

Hope that helps! It’s really easy to over complicate things, but you should do what you feel works for your herd.


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Sether55 said:


> I have not offered a loose mineral... ever. Hence why most of my goats are deficient most likely. When I first started with goats I was told it was unnecessary to add it but I'm starting to see that that was not good advice.


I agree, that was not good advice. Welcome, and if we can help with this, let us know. You'll want a loose mineral, not a salt block, or trace mineral block. You will see a big difference in your goats.


----------



## PippasCubby (May 13, 2015)

I am going to second what a most everybody has said and emphasize the importance of finding a good loose mineral ASAP and start putting it out for your goats. The ones mariarose provided are good ones to look for. If you don't find one you like in the goat minerals, check out the cattle minerals as well. 

If they are already deficient, getting them caught up would be good. Just be careful because mineral toxicity is possible and often harder to fix than a deficiency.


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Yes, cattle minerals may well be a good answer. Onyx is for cattle. I think that @PippasCubby is using a good cattle mineral, Payback's PNW Ultramin 12-6 Se? I can't find a link, but I'll keep looking. @Jessica84 really like a cattle mineral, this one. https://www.lumber2.com/Wind-Rain-All-Season-Cattle-Mineral-12-Complete-p/pm0057221.htm

Since you are deficient, then I think the Replamin Gel Plus idea @ksalvagno mentioned would be topnotch for you. Not instead of the loose minerals, but with them. Here is a link.

http://www.pbsanimalhealth.com/details/Replamin-Gel-and-Replamin-Gel-Plus/498-200.html

@goathiker and @Suzanne_Tyler will strongly suggest a cobalt block as well, if you can find some. Here is a link for one of those. All the others are blue, not this one.

http://www.redmondagriculture.com/products/cobalt-iodized-mineral-salt-block/

In my personal opinion, priority 1 is a good loose mineral, priority 2 is alfalfa hay or pellets for calcium, and priority 3 would be the Replamin Plus.

Hooray! Kids are coming!


----------



## PippasCubby (May 13, 2015)

mariarose said:


> Yes, cattle minerals may well be a good answer. Onyx is for cattle. I think that @PippasCubby is using a good cattle mineral, Payback's PNW Ultramin 12-6 Se? I can't find a link, but I'll keep looking. @Jessica84 really like a cattle mineral, this one. https://www.lumber2.com/Wind-Rain-All-Season-Cattle-Mineral-12-Complete-p/pm0057221.htm


Yup, I do use a cattle mineral. I think it is area specific so Payback doesn't have it on their website. Here is a picture of it though (I also provide a 90ppm Se salt block that my goat seem to like too). The Wind and Rain mineral is what I was using before, and was fairly happy with it as well.

Nice work @mariarose getting all that info. I think I would follow those same steps.


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

You will probably have to play around a little with the minerals and what is needed on top of it. I'm 8 years in and still playing! I would start with finding a good loose mineral you can get your hands on and kinda play with what is needed. Sadly we are kinda in a buisness that is trial and error :\ some people can get away with just mineral most have to add to it.
Other then the loose minerals this is what I do, starting this year I added free choice selenium salt, I got it loose but it also comes in a block like the cobslt\iodized mariaroase have a link to. I copper bolus 3-4X a year, give a Bose shot to does a month before kidding as well as new born kids. I also give 1\2cc of vitamin AandD because I had issues with kids and scouts years ago. If you are having issue with zinc then I would look into that zinpro mentioned. I would more address what you see they need then what might go wrong if you they are deficient because toxicity is a very real thing. So far the main 3 things that seem to be the most needed thing from what I have seen\heard with gosts is selenium, copper and zinc. During my AI class the instructor really stressed the importance of these on a goats health


----------



## Calfee Farms (Oct 10, 2017)

We use a good goat-specific loose mineral and a goat-specific protein block year round. This should supply most if not all of the Calcium and other minerals and vitamins a goat regardless of gender or reproductive status would need to be healthy.


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Calfee Farms said:


> We use a good goat-specific loose mineral and a goat-specific protein block year round.


Would you share what brand and formulation you use? Some goat specific stuff I've found has been high priced and not top quality for what you pay for. I'd love to know what you use/like


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

@Sether55 I have no idea if you have any Southern States in OH. But someone here uses and likes Southern States Traditions Weathershed 2:1 Beef Mineral. I have no experience with it, the levels look good, I don't know what the ingredients are. Here is the link.

https://www.southernstates.com/cata...itions-weathershed-21-beef-mineral-50-lb.aspx

They also have a Top Choice Goat Mineral, but I'm not crazy about those levels.


----------



## Calfee Farms (Oct 10, 2017)

I use the Ragland© brand of protein block found at Tractor Supply Co. As far as the mineral, I use the Purina® brand of goat mineral or the Tractor Supply brand. There may be better brands of either out there but I've used these brands for years and always had great results.


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Thanks, @Calfee Farms I'll look them up. Do you have any antagonists on your farm that you know of?


----------



## Calfee Farms (Oct 10, 2017)

Our water is a little high in iron which affects copper absorption I'm told. So with the mineral having a good balance of copper and the protein block having some, I dose all our goats every 6 months with Copasure® copper wire capsule supplement.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All, have really good advice.


----------



## Davon (Sep 22, 2017)

mariarose said:


> @Davon
> 
> What mineral mix do you use that is so high in selenium?
> 
> ...


Hey, took me a while to get back here. My favorite was a southern states Beef Breeder Mineral with OTM. I couldn't find it last time. I can find the tag I posted on dairygoatinfo with the specifics if you want.


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Yes please. I'd love that.


----------



## Davon (Sep 22, 2017)

Let me know what you think of this one. I haven't got to deep into minerals like I said so I am interested in your feedback. I just figured I would try and give them extra selenium and copper for now and change if I needed to. So far I have had no adults die and only one kid die over 4 kidding seasons. That one was caused by overfeeding the doe. (fingers crossed.) ;-)


----------



## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

@Sether55 - were you able to offer your herd loose minerals and did they go crazy for them?


----------



## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Davon said:


> Let me know what you think of this one. I haven't got to deep into minerals like I said so I am interested in your feedback. I just figured I would try and give them extra selenium and copper for now and change if I needed to. So far I have had no adults die and only one kid die over 4 kidding seasons. That one was caused by overfeeding the doe. (fingers crossed.) ;-)


I'm curious to know what "OTM" is - the mineral says "with OTM"


----------



## Calfee Farms (Oct 10, 2017)

SalteyLove said:


> I'm curious to know what "OTM" is - the mineral says "with OTM"


OTM is Organic Trace Minerals...there is also ITM which is Inorganic Trace Minerals.


----------



## Calfee Farms (Oct 10, 2017)

The main advantage of feeding organic trace minerals is their higher bioavailability to the animal. For minerals such as zinc and copper, producers can achieve the same production goals by feeding small amounts of nutrients from organic sources as they can by feeding relatively large amounts from inorganic sources.


----------



## PippasCubby (May 13, 2015)

And when they say "organic" they mean chemically organic, not grown/made by organic standards like "organic lettuce". (hopefully that makes sense)


----------



## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Ahhh gotcha... it's like chelated minerals versus sulfates etc. which are absorbed completely differently. Okay


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Carbon based


----------



## Sether55 (Dec 5, 2014)

It may not be ideal but for for now it will have to do. I am starting to add Manna Pro goat Minerals tonight free choice. Now I have a new concern regarding BoSe. I gave it to the does when they were exposed (shot form 1cc/40lbs) and plan to give them it again 5 weeks prior to kidding. With the minerals is that too much? I am very deficient and hado kids with symptoms of deficiency last spring.


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

On a post I recent made about bose tennacross really put my mind at ease on giving selenium. He gives his does a good amount of selenium supplements as well as bose and I’m sure selenium in his minerals as well.
The one thing he said that really hit home to me what how many selenium deficiency’s have you seen in kids being born and how many times have you heard of a goat being over dose? Well I got to thinking and I have only heard of 1 time a new goat owner gave a new born 3cc which is like 6X the recommended dose! Also if you break down the 1/2cc per kid that’s enough for a 20# kid and I, as well as others, give that amount with no ill effect.
I personally would (and did) give them their bose. I’m not sure what all you went threw last year being deficient but I know from my kidding last year it can be heart breaking so went with it this year. I also have out their minerals as well as loose selenium salt which made me nervous at first but it’s been 2-3 weeks since they got bose and still doing well!


----------



## Sether55 (Dec 5, 2014)

Jessica84 said:


> On a post I recent made about bose tennacross really put my mind at ease on giving selenium. He gives his does a good amount of selenium supplements as well as bose and I'm sure selenium in his minerals as well.
> The one thing he said that really hit home to me what how many selenium deficiency's have you seen in kids being born and how many times have you heard of a goat being over dose? Well I got to thinking and I have only heard of 1 time a new goat owner gave a new born 3cc which is like 6X the recommended dose! Also if you break down the 1/2cc per kid that's enough for a 20# kid and I, as well as others, give that amount with no ill effect.
> I personally would (and did) give them their bose. I'm not sure what all you went threw last year being deficient but I know from my kidding last year it can be heart breaking so went with it this year. I also have out their minerals as well as loose selenium salt which made me nervous at first but it's been 2-3 weeks since they got bose and still doing well!


This really put my mind at ease too. Thank you!


----------



## Sether55 (Dec 5, 2014)

Well, they hate the stuff. 
I even tried mixing it with their feed and they wouldn't touch it. 1 goat out of 12 ate it.hopefully just leaving it out will eventually get their attention.


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I've lost track. Your goats hate what stuff?


----------



## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

mariarose said:


> I've lost track. Your goats hate what stuff?


I believe the poster is referring to the Manna Pro loose minerals

Sether: they may acquire a taste for them in a few days. Leave some out in a small container up off the ground. Don't mix it into their grain/feed/rations. I am confident you are at nearly zero risk of selenium overdose with your 2 Bose injections and offering Manna Pro minerals.


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Ah, yes.

I completely agree with Saltey and Jessica. You are in no danger of a selenium OD, don't mix the mineral mix with feed, and to keep offering a bit all the time. If the aversion continues, then another solution might be sought.


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I would give them a week or so to see if they go after it. This was kinda the same issue I had with mine too, they were so dang picky on what minerals they would actually eat. I admit I went threw a lot of different minerals before I found something they would eat. But give them a chance before you move to a different one


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I'd mix in some kelp.


----------



## Sether55 (Dec 5, 2014)

Grea news! They have started to eat some free choice. Even the bucks. Thanks for all the great advice!


----------



## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Jessica84 said:


> On a post I recent made about bose tennacross really put my mind at ease on giving selenium. He gives his does a good amount of selenium supplements as well as bose and I'm sure selenium in his minerals as well.
> The one thing he said that really hit home to me what how many selenium deficiency's have you seen in kids being born and how many times have you heard of a goat being over dose? Well I got to thinking and I have only heard of 1 time a new goat owner gave a new born 3cc which is like 6X the recommended dose! Also if you break down the 1/2cc per kid that's enough for a 20# kid and I, as well as others, give that amount with no ill effect.
> I personally would (and did) give them their bose. I'm not sure what all you went threw last year being deficient but I know from my kidding last year it can be heart breaking so went with it this year. I also have out their minerals as well as loose selenium salt which made me nervous at first but it's been 2-3 weeks since they got bose and still doing well!


Hey Jessie,
Wondering if the selenium salts have helped?


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Davon said:


> My favorite was a southern states Beef Breeder Mineral with OTM. I couldn't find it last time.


@Davon are you still using this? Or have you had to switch since you posted?


----------

