# :Gurrrr:



## sarahmoffatt (Feb 17, 2013)

Some people make me mad!! I sold a grade bred doe for 50$ back in october to this lady and now shes trying to tell me that she wasn't bred. Meanwhile this lady is so dumb she had 5 still born kids and didn't know which doe they came from(i am assuming one from the doe i sold. Well anyway she offers no minerals an no grain found out after i sold her and now shes saying i sold her a unbreed doe when the vet checked her and said she was bred she bagged up and a goat farmer said she was bred too well anyway now i am geting her back becaus we had a contract that if mistreatment occored i get her back and gess what i am geting her monday)


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## sarahmoffatt (Feb 17, 2013)

Sorry i just cant believe this lady >:/ my pore goat is so skinny has a cough and her fur is so bad now and i don't know what other goats she had her in with or what diseases they had not to mention shes was living in a upsidown row boat as a "run in" with no sides to block rain/ wind if i knew this earlyer i would have took action sooner the only way i know is becaus she had the dairy goat owner look at her!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Im so sorry for her ..poor baby..thankfully you are getting her back..I would pen her away from your other goats..get her back to health and watch for illness...no need in getting the rest of your herd sick while she gets well...


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## sarahmoffatt (Feb 17, 2013)

Thats what i was planing on doing and i am imminently getting tested for cae! Anything els i should get tested for?


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## PiccoloGoat (Sep 10, 2008)

Test her for worms and probably CL and johnes. I don't really know much about johnes or how it's transmitted but better safe than sorry!


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## sarahmoffatt (Feb 17, 2013)

Ok i am picking her up and heading right to the vet! Then shes going to my grandpas house in his old goat pen ( he just sold off all his goats due to old age) until results are back he's my nabber so shell get good care from their on and ill need to find her a GOOD new home because i have all regesterd stock ( why i sold her in the first place)


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

sounds like you have a good plan : ) Have him pull some poo and test for cocci as well as all those other worms..look for lice and mites as well when you get her settled


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

PiccoloGoat said:


> Test her for worms and probably CL and johnes. I don't really know much about johnes or how it's transmitted but better safe than sorry!


Johne's is spread when the baby is young. The adults immune systems are strong enough to fight it off.


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## sarahmoffatt (Feb 17, 2013)

Thats going to be such a nice bill. Looking forward to it  i suppose thats what i get for not looking into the owner i sent her to  glad i made a contract with the lady tho!


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

mjs500doo said:


> Johne's is spread when the baby is young. The adults immune systems are strong enough to fight it off.


Usually, but not always. The feberal rule of thumb is that under 18 mths they catch it, over 18 mths they spread it. But as we all know goats dpnt always like to play by the rules and although its not common, spmetimes adults can pick it up.

I would be more concerned about chlamydia, given that the herd was having a large number of stillborn kids.


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

keren said:


> Usually, but not always. The feberal rule of thumb is that under 18 mths they catch it, over 18 mths they spread it. But as we all know goats dpnt always like to play by the rules and although its not common, spmetimes adults can pick it up.
> 
> I would be more concerned about chlamydia, given that the herd was having a large number of stillborn kids.


That's how I meant, the babies are the receivers. Adults do not catch it. Reason adults are the spreaders, is because of stress. Stress weakens the body, and when stressed (parturition, illness, etc) the Johne's is shed from the lining of the intestine leaving deposited counts in fecal material able to be spread by anything. Adults do not pick it up. Johne's test is not always accurate. An animal may test negative because the count is so low without any stress to trigger it, the animal may live out its life perfectly healthy with a strong immune system and may never test positive. For Johne's, you must test each animal, each year, each lactation prior to dry up when the milk is low.

(Close acquaintance resides in National Johne's Education Initiative)


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## Jodi_berg (Oct 29, 2012)

My head would explode!! Thank god you of her back,I can't even think of how miserable the poor creature was


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## Texas.girl (Dec 20, 2011)

It amazes me that people think it is okay to let animals live in conditions they would not themselves want to live in. There are basic necessities that all animals need. When my first doe just walked by the house and I was unable to locate an owner, I started asking questions. Thankfully there are commercial goat ranchers at my church. But there are also vets, books, internet, etc. When a rancher told me to get her some minerals, I did. When the vet tech said to go to a feed store and pick up CD/T shot and give it to her, I did. Just the thought of a goat dying because of my ignorance was terrifying. It would not have required any effort for that woman to have asked someone for goat care advice. 

I will say it was really rewarding last month when a friend was given a new born injured kid and I was able to give her advice and a few supplies. When we went over their the kid was not doing well at all. I brought Land O' Lakes goat milk replacer and some other supplies. One meal and the kid totally turned around. I am 100% possitive if that friend had not emailed me asking for advice that kid would have died.


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## goatgirl132 (Oct 18, 2012)

i would give her a 50/59 clorox water spray Down


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## sarahmoffatt (Feb 17, 2013)

Like spray her body down? What will that fo also remember the wether hear is still cold!


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## spot (Jan 7, 2012)

some people should not have animals. I shared my goats with a friend who did want the milk. when I picked them up they were skinny. the weaker one could hardly keep herself on her legs. they needed weeks of enough food to look healthy again. I can't understand not to give them the basic care.


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## goatgirl132 (Oct 18, 2012)

sarahmoffatt said:


> Like spray her body down? What will that fo also remember the wether hear is still cold!


yeah you wait till their about to pass out then rince them off with water.

we do it after shows for my wethers because some one the nastiest giats get taken to them :/

do you have a blower to blow them off with? 
i keeo forgetting not everyone lives in south Texas....

but the spray down will "disinfect" them and keep them frkm getting things like warts and scabs


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## kramsay (Mar 7, 2013)

Where are you located ? Sarah ?


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## sarahmoffatt (Feb 17, 2013)

Albany ny


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## peggy (Aug 11, 2010)

I would never spray bleach on my goats.....


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## sarahmoffatt (Feb 17, 2013)

Ya i dont think i would feel comfiterbel doing that either


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## hallsthirdacrefarm (Mar 30, 2011)

Remember to use different shoes and outerwear at ur grandpas with her too


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Prayers she regains her health and finds a great home


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## sarahmoffatt (Feb 17, 2013)

Trickyroo said:


> Prayers she regains her health and finds a great home


Thank you i hope shes ok too i really love this doe shes so sweet shame shes not reg:/ hears the only pick i could find of her when i had her my old phone was stolen so this is one my sister had if when she got her collar stuck on her horn  shes a sable sannin i believe


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Gosh she is pretty ! I'm so glad you have her back and will find her 
the perfect home she so well deserves


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## sarahmoffatt (Feb 17, 2013)

Trickyroo said:


> Gosh she is pretty ! I'm so glad you have her back and will find her
> the perfect home she so well deserves


Thank you i hope she can find a good home to this time i will be be doing a farm visit and vet reference with her because thats just upsetting i cant believe i let her go through that pore franceen :,(


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

did you change breeds or just want all registered goats...we have both registered and non registered..all our bucks are registered...but I sell my goats for the same price..papers or not..always sell everyone : ) just thought I would ask. she is a doll...and looks like she has a personality to crack one up lol...our ranch Clown is our Nubian Jasmine...shes a hoot...


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## oxhilldairy (Mar 24, 2013)

I want all registered animals so i can show. Also i have alpines and lamanchas . Sorry i got logged out of my account and couldn't log on?! So i made my farm account.


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## goatgirl132 (Oct 18, 2012)

oxhilldairy said:


> I want all registered animals so i can show. Also i have alpines and lamanchas . Sorry i got logged out of my account and couldn't log on?! So i made my farm account.


talk to Austin and see if theres any way he can retrieve it


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## oxhilldairy (Mar 24, 2013)

goatgirl132 said:


> talk to Austin and see if theres any way he can retrieve it


Ill try


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

goatgirl132 said:


> yeah you wait till their about to pass out then rince them off with water.
> 
> we do it after shows for my wethers because some one the nastiest giats get taken to them :/
> 
> ...


Excuse me?

Wait till they are about to pass out??

Wtf??


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## goatgirl132 (Oct 18, 2012)

keren said:


> Excuse me?
> 
> Wait till they are about to pass out??
> 
> Wtf??


i couldent figre out a better way to explain it *shrugs*


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

I'm not sure what a bleach spray down would do. Most illnesses are transmitted through saliva, blood or feces. I keep my goats out of feces/urine and away from other goats at shows. Especially the.sickly ones. I haven't had a problem yet.

I wouldn't suggest spraying bleach, diluted or not, on them. Too many things can go wrong there.

Keren, I think she means when they are almost asleep, not actually passed out.


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## goatgirl132 (Oct 18, 2012)

who knows what is on their skin or what the othwr goats have. i was just sayibg to make shure they dont get warts or scabs or anything like that. 

and we try to keeo them away from things like that but at shows you end up being around alot of goats and wgo kbows who has what they may not look sick but they may be getting sick or getting over it so we do it just incase


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## oxhilldairy (Mar 24, 2013)

I can deal with warts but not cl or cae. I will not be spraying her with bleach because o don't feel safe doing that.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

oxhilldairy said:


> I can deal with warts but not cl or cae. I will not be spraying her with bleach because o don't feel safe doing that.


Same here... for the most part we don't see many bad diseases at shows here. We have some wormy goats and the occasional cold at our shows. Just have to be careful with it


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## oxhilldairy (Mar 24, 2013)

Going to get her rightnow


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## oxhilldairy (Mar 24, 2013)

Pore girl  the conditions were worse then i was told about a 5 by 5 pen with 7 goats all large breeds nothing but mud up to her knees and the shelter was 2 peaces of flat wood nailed together i was informed that all 7 goats eat only qt and a half not each but thats it and 3 flakes of hay i will be calling the cops in the am. So sad


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## goatgirl132 (Oct 18, 2012)

oh no!!! Thats really scary!!! 
Im glad you got her back

and i felt bad when i had 5 goats in a 10 by 10 cage for a few weeks when the other oen was swamped :/ 

Im glad you got her back and are going to give ger lots of loveing care and lets not forget food!


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## oxhilldairy (Mar 24, 2013)

goatgirl132 said:


> oh no!!! Thats really scary!!!
> Im glad you got her back
> 
> and i felt bad when i had 5 goats in a 10 by 10 cage for a few weeks when the other oen was swamped :/
> ...


I just fell so bad for the girls that got left behind and the buck too;,( i actually cried and i yelled at the lady too.


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## goatgirl132 (Oct 18, 2012)

Thats really sad
Im sorry you, your girl, and he other girls had to experience that!


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

How horrible !! Im glad you got the chance to get your girl out of there and help her regain her health. See what you can do about the other goats . If you alert the cops , maybe that will bring attention to this horrible situation. Prayers it goes well and help comes to those poor animals .


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## oxhilldairy (Mar 24, 2013)

I jut weighed her she weighed 35 pounds.so sad


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## goatgirl132 (Oct 18, 2012)

Awwww  how sad

Www.Facebook.com/wickedshowchains


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## oxhilldairy (Mar 24, 2013)

Thats her she holds her head down all the time and coughs all the time (never mind my mom in the picture.)


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## goatgirl132 (Oct 18, 2012)

Shes so pretty what a shame someone could do that to her!

Www.Facebook.com/wickedshowchains


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## ogfabby (Jan 3, 2013)

Glad you got her back.


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## Stacykins (Mar 27, 2012)

Do you have any pictures of her in a very good body condition before you sold her? Like a side profile picture? Because the investigating police might appreciate a 'before and after' picture to show that you sold her an animal in good condition, and returned with her in abysmal condition.

Also, do you know how much she weighed before she left?


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

a vet visit wouldnt be a bad idea either. Firstly to assess her health but secondly so you have an expert opinion if you are going to go to police etc.


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## oxhilldairy (Mar 24, 2013)

She was 150 i only have face pictures this was my first ever goat so i didn't know to take side pictures. The second picture is taken from my desk top so not the best


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## Kaneel (Oct 7, 2012)

Oh my gosh that is horrible! I'm glad you called the cops on them, it's the right thing to do. Although I probably would have done something worse to them  And a contract that includes having to return the goat if mistreated? Gosh that's a good idea! Also, I think I will be looking into places where I may sell goats in the future...I hope your girl gets better!!


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## oxhilldairy (Mar 24, 2013)

Ya it states that if she comes under neglectful conditions she is so be given back to me. Also i get first right refusal if she was to be resold its grate thing for situations like this but i think ill be doing farm visits or vet reference from now on i feel so bad i let this happen.


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## oxhilldairy (Mar 24, 2013)

Yaaaayyyyy!!!!!! Franceen got justice at last!!! The cops took a visit to the lady's house today i don't k ow what happened yet but all i know is she is in trubbel!!!


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## goatgirl132 (Oct 18, 2012)

Woo hoo!!


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Great ! Good for you for getting those goats help.
Hopefully they will be taken away from her ! 
I hate to say this but sometimes a animal is better off put down then suffering like that. Not to say that will happen to those poor animals !
But if they can't be brought back to health or have some underlying medical condition because of lack of nutrition and care , they can be put out of their misery instead of suffering. 
I'm praying they can all recoup from that horrible life they had with that woman.


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## oxhilldairy (Mar 24, 2013)

Trickyroo said:


> Great ! Good for you for getting those goats help.
> Hopefully they will be taken away from her !
> I hate to say this but sometimes a animal is better off put down then suffering like that. Not to say that will happen to those poor animals !
> But if they can't be brought back to health or have some underlying medical condition because of lack of nutrition and care , they can be put out of their misery instead of suffering.
> I'm praying they can all recoup from that horrible life they had with that woman.


I know i think one was so bad i might beed to be put down the others may just be saveabell!!


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Hows your girl ?


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## oxhilldairy (Mar 24, 2013)

Trickyroo said:


> Hows your girl ?


Shes doing good happy to be eating some grain i have ben easing her into it, vets coming up to give Basic shots and do a check up from when he saw her last test results should be in soon lets hope its clean!!!!!


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## pridegoethb4thefall (Mar 3, 2013)

peggy said:


> I would never spray bleach on my goats.....


Fyi, anyone who sprays the Vetericyn product on an animal, is spraying diluted bleach on them. Not saying you did that, but most people are unaware of that products ingredients, and while saying they wouldn't use bleach, are doing just that, inadvertently.


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## smshooter515 (Jan 20, 2013)

pridegoethb4thefall said:


> Fyi, anyone who sprays the Vetericyn product on an animal, is spraying diluted bleach on them. Not saying you did that, but most people are unaware of that products ingredients, and while saying they wouldn't use bleach, are doing just that, inadvertently.


Yes it contains a trace amount of sodium hypochlorite which is used in bleach. Also used as an anti bacterial, in other cleaning products and most water purifiers. If you dont use chemicals at all I agree dont use vetercyn. But its actually safe to drink tho i wouldnt recommend it

Added: sorry for hijacking the thread. Just read over it an realized it has nothing to do with the OP.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

oxhilldairy said:


> Shes doing good happy to be eating some grain i have ben easing her into it, vets coming up to give Basic shots and do a check up from when he saw her last test results should be in soon lets hope its clean!!!!!


Thats so nice to hear , I bet she is so happy to be back with you 
I wish I had the room for her , but I am full right now , or I would take her.
Praying for clean report !


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## smshooter515 (Jan 20, 2013)

Omg i just read the whole thread this is too sad! Thank goodness you got her back I bet shes already happier!


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## goatgirl132 (Oct 18, 2012)

pridegoethb4thefall said:


> Fyi, anyone who sprays the Vetericyn product on an animal, is spraying diluted bleach on them. Not saying you did that, but most people are unaware of that products ingredients, and while saying they wouldn't use bleach, are doing just that, inadvertently.


Thank you!


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## oxhilldairy (Mar 24, 2013)

WHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! she is clean!!!!! And can go in with the herd!! Yayyyyyyyyy so happy!


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

What are you feeding her? With any animal that has been starved the best thing is to go super slow, do not give her a whole bunch of different things and don't give her too much. The body isn't used to having food and if you just give her free choice everything her organs/body will freak out at the sudden change and can shut down. It is best to give very small meals several times a day for a couple weeks then gradually increase the amounts and cut out mid day feedings so she is back on your regular feeding schedule. Also, even if she checked clean I would worm her with either cydectin or ivomec plus then worm again in 10 days. This time of year if it is still cold where you are worms won't be putting out eggs, so there won't be any on the fecal (no sense in laying eggs if they will just freeze when they exit the goat). I would also treat her for lice and treat again in 21 days. Make sure she is current on copper and all other minerals. 

I wouldn't expect her to look good for several months. It takes a long time to regain weight once it has been lost. Just take it slow, and go easy with what you are giving her.


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## oxhilldairy (Mar 24, 2013)

ptgoats45 said:


> What are you feeding her? With any animal that has been starved the best thing is to go super slow, do not give her a whole bunch of different things and don't give her too much. The body isn't used to having food and if you just give her free choice everything her organs/body will freak out at the sudden change and can shut down. It is best to give very small meals several times a day for a couple weeks then gradually increase the amounts and cut out mid day feedings so she is back on your regular feeding schedule. Also, even if she checked clean I would worm her with either cydectin or ivomec plus then worm again in 10 days. This time of year if it is still cold where you are worms won't be putting out eggs, so there won't be any on the fecal (no sense in laying eggs if they will just freeze when they exit the goat). I would also treat her for lice and treat again in 21 days. Make sure she is current on copper and all other minerals.
> 
> I wouldn't expect her to look good for several months. It takes a long time to regain weight once it has been lost. Just take it slow, and go easy with what you are giving her.


Thats what i have been doing her audited has changed 100 present she can actually hold her ears up let alone her head and now shes acting like a normal goat all perky and curious jumping on things and what not :happygoat:


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## goatgirl132 (Oct 18, 2012)

Thank god(am i even still allowed to say that?) for happy goats<3

show goat/lamb equipment
www.Facebook.com/wickedshowchains


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## oxhilldairy (Mar 24, 2013)

Well hear she is! How does she look now? Any better? She seems so happy! I am planing on giving her a bath tomorrow


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## goatgirl132 (Oct 18, 2012)

She looks go much better now!!!! So much happier!!!

show goat/lamb equipment
www.Facebook.com/wickedshowchains


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## goatgirl132 (Oct 18, 2012)

She looks so much sturdier on her legs too!!

show goat/lamb equipment
www.Facebook.com/wickedshowchains


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Bless her heart ! She looks alot happier and much healthier then she first did when you took her back ! 
Im so happy for the both of you  Well done !
Looking forward to seeing her in a few months under your care and of course with love. She is a beauty


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

She does look better  

Not to derail the thread, but I just noticed that the goats and poultry are all eating pellets off the ground. Just wanted to check that they arent poultry pellets - you dont want your goats to eat poultry pellets as they can make goats very sick or even kill them - ditto you dont want your poultry eating goat pellets.

Also a good idea to feed them in troughs or pans rather than off the ground as they can pick up worms etc easier if just feeding off the ground


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

keren said:


> She does look better
> 
> Not to derail the thread, but I just noticed that the goats and poultry are all eating pellets off the ground. Just wanted to check that they arent poultry pellets - you dont want your goats to eat poultry pellets as they can make goats very sick or even kill them - ditto you dont want your poultry eating goat pellets.
> 
> Also a good idea to feed them in troughs or pans rather than off the ground as they can pick up worms etc easier if just feeding off the ground


Please come and tell my chickens this info!! Lol


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## OwnedByTheGoats (Mar 7, 2013)

WOW, she looks so good. Love those kinds of people like you who step in and help things like this. Just think, you SAVED lives and stopped all of those poor goats from suffering.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

mjs500doo said:


> Please come and tell my chickens this info!! Lol


Most goats like chook pellets and most chooks like goat pellets. Ditto my goats like to eat dry dog food. None of which are good for them, its our responsibility to make sure they eat what is suited to them.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Just read this thread......and I have to say, I am so saddened by her ordeal :-(
She does look better now, I am so glad she came back home!

Question.....you said you had a contract with her and it said if there was any mistreatment, you get her back. Who decides there has been mistreatment? I mean, did you have to have a third party involved? What if she denied mistreatment? How would that work?


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

keren said:


> Most goats like chook pellets and most chooks like goat pellets. Ditto my goats like to eat dry dog food. None of which are good for them, its our responsibility to make sure they eat what is suited to them.


Right right I see what you're saying, but if I'm feeding the goats their grain the chickens HAVE to go help them. Literally. I free range most of the breeding pens besides when I want purebred chicks for hatching.


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## oxhilldairy (Mar 24, 2013)

keren said:


> She does look better
> 
> Not to derail the thread, but I just noticed that the goats and poultry are all eating pellets off the ground. Just wanted to check that they arent poultry pellets - you dont want your goats to eat poultry pellets as they can make goats very sick or even kill them - ditto you dont want your poultry eating goat pellets.
> 
> Also a good idea to feed them in troughs or pans rather than off the ground as they can pick up worms etc easier if just feeding off the ground


I know that this is 16%sweet feed I put down to get the goats out of my hair whelk cleaning the barn I know it's no good for the chickens but whatever


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## oxhilldairy (Mar 24, 2013)

NyGoatMom said:


> Just read this thread......and I have to say, I am so saddened by her ordeal :-(
> She does look better now, I am so glad she came back home!
> 
> Question.....you said you had a contract with her and it said if there was any mistreatment, you get her back. Who decides there has been mistreatment? I mean, did you have to have a third party involved? What if she denied mistreatment? How would that work?


Yes here is a 3d party ill post a coppy of the papers I have that I use when I sell an animal


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## oxhilldairy (Mar 24, 2013)

Ok franceen is 100% pregnant and I am worried for her she is back to good conditioning by now but I am afraid that if she starts lactating all our hard work will go down the drain. I estimated that she's due for October because of the last possible day it could be that she was around a buck she would be due on October 3d. This is not a good thing for her to be going into winter with! Should I cut her back on her grain so she's just on hay till the baby's born so it doesn't grow to big another thing is that she usually had twins! I am scared for her I don't want her to be skin and bones again!


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

Given her history I would not cut her off grain. She will need that to keep her condition and help the kids grow. My goats are on grain 365 and have never had oversized kids. I rescued 2 of my girls back who were in worse shape than your girl. They had been worked up to large amounts of grain and alfalfa pellets and the kids were normal sized Nubians. You can get a higher fat grain (like horse grain for mare and foals or performance horses with a fat of 5%) that will help her keep her condition, help the kids develop but not enough protein to cause health problems.

Also, before you trust a contract about returning the animal or demanding first rights of refusal, check with your state laws. In some states, those types of contracts cannot be enforced. Once an animal leaves your property, you have no control over it even with a contract. The state I live in is one of them. When I would fill in as a court officer, I saw many of those cases go through. Each time the ruling was the same. Once you sell or give away an animal, your rights to them are gone. A contract, even when signed, is null and void unless the new owner wants to follow it voluntarily. If they don't it cannot be enforced.


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## oxhilldairy (Mar 24, 2013)

Ok so I'll keep her on grain also I am worried about the baby's will they be ok because of the bad conditioning she was in when she got pregnant? Should I be repaired for unhelthy baby's?


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