# Can genes be over thrown?



## HybridMustang (Jul 29, 2011)

so we have been trying to figure out this gene thing :/ we have a spanish cross boer goat buck the buck looks more spanish than boer, and the momma looks more boer than anything (we have no knowledge of if she is crossed or not) out of them two we got a little chestnut paint boer buckling. we recently bred him however we want to register the female Geista and her son beeper to ABGA.org. However we dont know if we can do that for these reasons. 

Geista: no pedigree history or papers, we want to reg her as a percentage. 
Beeper: fathers half spanish and we dont know much about his mom mentioned above:

but my main question is Can boer genes over throw other genes like if the mom is 75% and the dad has like 25/10% boer in him, would that enable the kid (beeper) to be full blood? or pureblood whichever LOL. 

however my second question is, Is there any way to register a doe without her pedigree history?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> however my second question is, Is there any way to register a doe without her pedigree history?


 I am sorry to say but No....it is not possible if her Sire was not ABGA FB registered at the time... the Dam wouldn't of had to be registered... this would of made the Doe 50% ... 

For a goat to be registered through ABGA... the Sire of any offspring ... has to be Registered Purebred or FB status ..through ABGA.. 
It doesn't look like you will be able to register Geista... if her Sire is only 50% and not registered....

If the percentage of Sire or Dam is higher than the other breed bred to...the offspring may show more of that breed character ...whether it be boer or any other breed... but sometimes it will go the opposite way....depending.... 
you can also get out of twins ...one of which...may look more boer and the other may be more Spanish.... :wink:

FB.. is always FB registered ...to FB registered...no matter if Sire or DAm = FB offspring...

Purebred starts out with a FB or Purebred Registered Sire ...bred to any Doe of any breed ...that will make their offspring start at 50% ...then... if you breed the 50% offspring to a FB registered Boer buck.... their kids will be 75% registered percentage kids....and so on.... until they reach Purebred Status.... 
A Purebred can never be a FB boer...


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## HybridMustang (Jul 29, 2011)

toth boer goats said:


> > however my second question is, Is there any way to register a doe without her pedigree history?
> 
> 
> I am sorry to say but No....it is not possible if her Sire was not ABGA FB registered at the time... the Dam wouldn't of had to be registered... this would of made the Doe 50% ...
> ...


uhmm people keep telling us this that goats cannot be registered at all not even under percentages but we dont believe this because it doesnt make sense. If the goat race fell out and you had 10% boer mix or something and your bred them together theyd be 25% you could not register either of these pairs because they are below the percentage line O-o, but if you breed the 25% together it would be 50 to 60% and the ABGA percentage registration page says:

Does between 50 percent up to 93.6 percent are ELIGIBLE for a percentage registration

but that wouldnt make sense if her parents arent registered that would mean we cant register her IF you cant register a goat because neither parent is registered, but what im wondering is how did this ABGA happen if there were no registered goats before it happend? sure you have two purebred goats that produced more offspring but how do you introduce new lines into the ABGA?

Now the doe we have we know nothing of her parents and are planning on getting a genetics testing on as well as her son because he looks more boer than the father does. Its all very confusing would you all consider me put this on hold until i get the testing done ? LOL! cuz im thinking i should XD


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I'm having a hard time following. :shrug:

What kind of genetic test are you wanting to have done? I'm not sure how that would apply. That wouldn't determine the breed or percentage of breeds. There's no genetic test for that.


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## chelsboers (Mar 25, 2010)

In order to REGISTER with ABGA the sire must be purebred or fullblood. The mother doesn't have to be registered. For example if you have a fullblood buck and breed him to an unregistered doe (even if both her parents were boer goats but didn't have papers) the kids would still be 50%.
Your goats may be 100% boer they just cant be registered through ABGA without the sire having papers. As for ABGA saying does 50-93.6% are eligible to be registered percentage, they can. But the sire has to be registered through ABGA. 

There really is no point spending money to have genetic testing done if you are only doing it to try and register you goats through ABGA.


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## HybridMustang (Jul 29, 2011)

chelsboers said:


> In order to REGISTER with ABGA the sire must be purebred or fullblood. The mother doesn't have to be registered. For example if you have a fullblood buck and breed him to an unregistered doe (even if both her parents were boer goats but didn't have papers) the kids would still be 50%.
> Your goats may be 100% boer they just cant be registered through ABGA without the sire having papers. As for ABGA saying does 50-93.6% are eligible to be registered percentage, they can. But the sire has to be registered through ABGA.
> 
> There really is no point spending money to have genetic testing done if you are only doing it to try and register you goats through ABGA.


well if theres any other way to get her tested to figure out what her genes are, then we want to register her, i contacted the ladies daughter that showed the doe Geista in shows but she wasnt registered precentage or full blood otherwise we would have gotten papers with her when she gave her to us but then again idk if showing goats in 4h is different from actual showing in state fairs or national goat shows if those even exsist LOL and if the ladys daughter cant give us any information, its our only last resort as we are looking to start a registered herd not just have meat goats. But its okay i guess because we are getting probably one or two (as others say we'll never know because they keep us guessing lOL) from her FROM a registered buck and we will be able to register them.... ohhhhhh now it makes sense LOL. okay yeah we will be able to register them as percentages and the babies that come from them we'll be able to register as whatever they are until we hit full blood lol.... thats right ...right?


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## HybridMustang (Jul 29, 2011)

KW Farms said:


> I'm having a hard time following. :shrug:
> 
> What kind of genetic test are you wanting to have done? I'm not sure how that would apply. That wouldn't determine the breed or percentage of breeds. There's no genetic test for that.


 well it doesnt matter i guess we are contacting the lady who had the goat for showing if she doesnt give us the name ill ask for the person who had the doe before and if she refuses then theres probably gonna be a problem D:


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## GotmygoatMTJ (Apr 25, 2009)

If yur buck has any spanish influence, he's probably about half spanish, or more. There is no possible way to register him. In ABGA you can not register any buck under 97% (Which is PUREBRED). In order to be purebred, or even fullblood, both parents would have to be registered with the association, and the doe must be a purebred of atleast 94% boer. If the father was anything other than fullblood, say it was 97%, then the kid would be about 95.5% boer, and ONLY does would be able to be registered.

I dont know if anything I just said makes sense to you, lol, but it kinda sounds like you are trying to pull a needle out of a haystack with genetic testing. Even if you did, theres no way you can know who the mother/father is of your buck- except for what someone tells you.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> If the goat race fell out and you had 10% boer mix or something and your bred them together theyd be 25% you could not register either of these pairs because they are below the percentage line O-o, but if you breed the 25% together it would be 50 to 60% and the ABGA percentage registration page says:


 There is nothing under 50% to start...all kids that were Sired by a FB or Purebred registered buck...will always start out at 50% no less .... even if the Dam is not registered or of another breed.. totally...

I know some breeders that have bought a FB boer ..where the breeder was suppose to send the registration papers to the buyer later...but in fact...lied and never had any in the first place and never receives the registration for that goat ....So...the only alternative is ... to breed that unregistered Doe.. to a registered FB or Purebred buck... to make the kids registered with the ABGA.... this will start their offspring at 50%... even though....the Dam is in fact... FB ...it isn't fair and that Doe will never be registered but.... the offspring will start out at 50% and work up from there....but will never be FB status....



> Does between 50 percent up to 93.6 percent are ELIGIBLE for a percentage registration
> but that wouldnt make sense if her parents arent registered that would mean we cant register her IF you cant register a goat because neither parent is registered, but what im wondering is how did this ABGA happen if there were no registered goats before it happend? sure you have two purebred goats that produced more offspring but how do you introduce new lines into the ABGA?


 It makes perfect sense... the buck has to be registered FB or Purebred ( It is him that has to be registered not the Doe)

The one side...which is the Doe...won't have any linage no....it will say what breed she is....but from there on out...the lineage...pedigree will start showing.... That is why they are not Fullbloods ...with the FB 's it will let you know all the bloodlines.... I think it is neat that they allow the percentages....because some breeders that are wronged... at least have some way... to get some sort of registration through the offspring and are able to achieve Purebred Status ...plus...are able to show the offspring.....



> Now the doe we have we know nothing of her parents and are planning on getting a genetics testing on as well as her son because he looks more boer than the father does. Its all very confusing would you all consider me put this on hold until i get the testing done ? LOL! cuz im thinking i should XD


 Without paperwork from a FB or Purebred registered ABGA Sire....... you cannot get any registration on this Doe... Testing wouldn't be beneficial in this case....

If you are trying to figure out what genetics she has...so ABGA will put together registration for her...that .. will not work.......


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## HybridMustang (Jul 29, 2011)

We actually found the guy who owned the mother and bred her mother with a buck he said the buck was almost pureblood however he didnt know if the mom was pure nubian he said that one was standing next ot us was the mom and then he said that the mom was dead O-o so he was drunk and we arent sure to believe him so we gave up and decided we will register the babies we get from her instead because we bred her with koda and koda is already registered we just have to get him registered in our name and we are good to go  i finally understand what yall mean now if the mom is not full blood but the dad is the kid can be registered as a percentage or if the mom is full and the dad is full then the kid can be registered as a full but if neither parent is registered you cant do squat but get a full buck and breed them so nooowwww i get it i think lol thats just what i though after reading what Toth boer said over and over and over lol. so thanks Toth and to everyone else who replied. ^_^


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

HeHe...your welcome....glad to of help.... :thumb: :greengrin: :hi5: :laugh:


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