# Sticky  Step by Step Guide: Doe care after kidding



## Buck Naked Boers

Hello Friends:

As a somewhat newer person to goat raising, it would be great to have 'sticky' posting on topics such as:

1. Care of your doe prior to getting pregnant. (feed, suppl, etc)
2. Care of your doe during pregnancy (feed, suppl, shots, etc)
3. Care of your doe and kids right after kidding(feed, suppl, shots, etc)
4. Care of the kids after birth and the days following.

I am hoping this peaks the interest of those here who have experience kidding. * PLEASE give instructions in a step by step manner so this is easy for all of us to understand. *

We need a place to go to when our doe has kidded to know what we should be doing. And having to ask a bunch of questions can actually be avoided if we have sticky's or postings such as this.

PLEASE answer this question:
*When your doe has kidded, what do you give her and kids?? 
Step by Step instructions on what you do for both Doe and Kids. 
Include everything you can think of that you do on your farm. 
*
Thank you SO much, we so appreciate everyone taking the time to help us and many more who will need help like us!!!

Tami


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## nancy d

This is a tough one, depending on breed & general management, not to mention the time of year. Someone living in a bitter cold climate with severe winters is going to do differently than for instance here in the Pac NW.
I can share what we do but it's not going to fit everyone's needs or level of experience.

Generally speaking we do not grain year round; only a week or two before breeding (called flushing) and then not until kidding & throughout lactation.
Since we are in a low selenium area, does get a shot of BoSe before being exposed to the buck.

Buck gets BoSe about a month prior to his job. And everyone's feet must be in tip top shape.

(to be continued, daughter visiting right now)


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## nancy d

Everyone here gets 3rd cut alfalfa year round including buck & wether. They are dry lotted. Inotherwords, not on pasture.

We do not baby pregnant does nor do they get anything out of the ordinary. 

About a month from kidding does get their yearly CDT. Sometimes it is as late as 2 weeks before. At either time, she gets another dose of BoSe.

If kids not on their feet or having a hard time standing they get their own BoSe.
Does get warm molasses water the first day, as well as wormed after the new family has nursed and settled down. Another dose of wormer 10 days post kidding for the dam.


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## nancy d

I like to wait till the last moments before bringing her in. This includes but is not limited to amber goo, tight shiny udder or standing off by herself.
If someone is talking to her belly and never has before, I bring her in, even with a half inch amber goo.
If she is normally quiet and now vocal, she gets brought in.
Keep in mind we have due dates within a certain week.

When kids arrive we are armed with 7% iodine to dip navels shortly after their first meal.
Spray iodine usually clogs up. We pour it into small container. Put kid's navel in up to belly, tip kid up. If dam licks it off we do it again.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Thank you Nancy for all your information on what is done at your farm. I appreciate that!

Maybe as Nancy mentioned, if those who post next could mention the area you live in like Pnw or eastern U.S. Then people will know how things differ in different parts of the U.S. 

Thank you!! Appreciate all the input.


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## goathiker

The care of dairy and meat goats is quite different as well. 

A month or so before breeding every goat, doe and buck, gets a good once over to check for issues, cleaned, and groomed. (My buck is descented)
Does get copper bolus, Bo.Se, pnuemonia, and Lysigin shots. 
Milk stand feed stays the same as always, I start them on Chaffe Hay for flushing. 
The day of breeding they are put together for 48 hours. Then they go back on the milk line. I do for watch for 5 day heat. 
3 months before due date I begin dying them off slowly. Goal is to be dry before/at 2 months before due date. Grain is reduced to 12% protein. 
As soon as they are dry they are dry cowed with Tomorrow or dry cow Pirsue. This is repeated in 30 days on does that have had congestion problems.
1 month before kidding: Copper bolus, Bo.Se, CDT
Early labor: 1/2 dose Bo.Se, colostrum is milked out, and doe put into kidding pen. Decide well before hand which does are keeping kids...
Birth: Each kid is cleaned quickly and put in the warm nursery box before the next comes, having 2 people helps a lot. 
Doe is left with a gallon of warm honey based eletrolytes. 
Kids are dried thoroughly, evaluated, sex checked and fed colostrum. Each kid gets 1/2 cc Vitamin B complex orally and 3 or 4 drops of cod liver oil. Umbilical cords are sprayed with fight bac then dipped in an herbal solution I make. If being pulled, they are taken to the house, if not they are given back to mom.
Does not keeping kids are milked out and returned to the group stall. 
Does keeping kids are left in the kidding stall for a couple days. 
Does are wormed orally with Ivomec Plus,only if needed. By the time the colostrum is out of their milk, the withdrawal period for oral dosage is over.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Jill thank you so much for this information!! 
Nancy & Jill I really appreciate you both taking the time to tell what you do during birthing. . Thank you!!
I have a few questions for you Jill. I'm sorry to ask so many questions. . But this is a learning curve I'm learning.

1. What time of year do you give the pneumonia shot? What is the name of the vaccine you give for that? I want to try that this year.

2. What is lysine shots? What is that for? Should they get this yearly even if they aren't bred? What time of year should it be given?

3. Because I had to give my doe cd antitoxin a while back, I gave her a CDT shot a month ago. Someone said to give a booster now. Just checking, should I do that? She is due this week. Please let me know soon about this if possible

4. Is having a nursery box important or can I just have a corner with heat lamp for them? She is due this weekend. Supposed to be pretty warm this weekend. So I wasn't sure if a special kid box would be necessary.

5. So when you give honey water is it just honey water or do you put powdered electrolytes in it too??

6. When do you worm the babies for cocci?

7. The b-12 you give the babies orally, is that the same stuff for shots?

Thank you in advance for all the help these answers will give!!

Tami


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## Buck Naked Boers

Nancy: I have a few questions for you too! ️

1. My doe had cd antitoxin a while back. So I gave CDT shot about a month ago. Someone said I should give a booster now, another CDT. Is this correct?

2. My doe is due sometime in the next week. She had a shot of BOSE 4-8-15. Would you give another shot now??

3. What wormer do you worm with?

4. Do you worm the kids for cocci? If so when and what do you use?

5. When are kids given regular wormer? At what age do you worm? And how often, what is the schedule to worm that you use for kids?

Thank you in advance for all your answers!! We really appreciate the help!!


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## Buck Naked Boers

Bump


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## CountyLineAcres

I will respond ASAP!


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## Buck Naked Boers

Thank you!!


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## nancy d

Buck Naked Boers said:


> Bump


 Have patience my dear, we'll get back.


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## Buck Naked Boers

No worries, I am patient Nancy. Just wanted to bump it in case someone else wanted to post. I am being patient. I know everyone is slammed right now with all kinds of things....believe me I understand that. =) I am there! Have a great day!


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## anawhitfield

We live in Georgia where the weather is hot and humid, and we have vegetation from about March until late October so we only buy hay for Nov-Mar. I have boers and sanaans who go in heat in the fall.
In terms of care pre, during and post kidding, this is my routine:
-Around October everyone gets Copper Bolus, deworming and trim hooves.
- In November everyone (male & female) gets BoSe, Vit E and Vit B and I increase the feed just slightly to gain a bit of weight pre-breeding. Then I introduce the buck to the does. (keep a record of breeding dates)
-In January I remove the buck to make sure he doesn't get aggressive with the does. I also give Vit E, Vit B, Selenium to pregnant does who need it. I decrease feed so the babies won't be too big for delivery.
-In March I order my supplies:
Colostrum and Milk Replacer
Bottles & Nipples, towels, gloves, hair dryer, heat lamp, heat box, trash bags
MEDS: CD/T, BoSe, JumpStart, Albon, Nuflor, Penicilin, Banamine, Thiamine, Iodine, Lutalyse, Priobiotics, thermometer, Peroxide, Triple Antibiotic cream, cotton balls, paper towels, etc.
VITAMINES: B Complex, Selenium+Vit E gel, CMPK Calcium, KaoPactate, Molases, Kyro Syrup,
Everyone gets CD/T vaccine (and newly bought animals get a booster 2 weeks later). I also give copper bolus, and we deworm and trim hooves ONLY IF NEEDED.

In April I clean out the barn and sprinkle D.E. (diatomaceous earth) to kill any parasites, germs, etc. and then bring in clean comfy bedding (hay)
I make sure I have at least one area where I can separate a new mom & baby if necessary.
I decrease the feed 2 weeks pre-kidding so the babies won't be too big for delivery.
Once the baby is born, I give mom a big bucket of water with molasses and a shot of B Complex. I give the baby .5cc BoSe SQ and a little Vit B if he seems sluggish, and my blessing  . Then I watch to make sure the baby is nursing. 
For the next 2-3 days I watch the mom to make sure she is up and active and attentive. If not, I check temp and look for signs of post-partum infection (in which case i give Luthalyse to help expel any left-over placenta, along with antibiotics). I also check for mastitis and treat accordingly. We had orf (sore mouth) at our farm so I check the babies regularly and if i see it, I pay special attention to make sure they are eating enough, as sore mouth can be painful for both mom & baby causing them to not want to let them nurse. That's when the bottles come out 
I also get my banding and disbudding supplies ready along with a supply of CD/T, banamine, BluKote and antibiotics for the new babies. CD/T should be given at aprox 6 weeks of age with a booster 2 weeks later. HOWEVER, if you plan to disbud (at 3-7 days old), be sure to give them the CD/T vaccine first and follow up with the booster 2 weeks later. Banding should be at aproximately 6-10 weeks of age (depending on their development - if you do it too soon, their urinary tract may not be completely developed or testicles may not have completely dropped. If you wait too long, they may be too big and it could cause complications. In that case, I recommend castration by a vet). Make sure the kids have CD/T vaccine before banding them (banamine helps with the pain too)


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## Buck Naked Boers

Just wanted to say thank you to all who post today!!! I won't be able to respond until later today, crazy day here! But I will read and respond! thank you to all who take the time to respond. We appreciate you all!

Thank you Ana! I haven't read your post fully but great information you shared! I might have questions later! I will read and respond then.

Have a great day!

Tami


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## ThreeHavens

*1. Care of your doe prior to getting pregnant. (feed, suppl, etc)*

One or two months before breeding, I add ACV to the does' water buckets, maybe 1/3 a cup. I start with one bucket, and once I'm sure they'll like it and drink it, I try to add it to most of their multiple buckets a day. It may or may not sway the amount of doelings I get, but even if it doesn't, it's a good health boost. I do, however, usually get a nice amount of doelings.

If I want to encourage multiples, a week to two before breeding, I slowly increase her feed ration. This is supposed to tell her body "Hey, things are good in this environment, release more eggs!" Forewarning, one doe I did this for gave my quads that year. :lol: So I don't do that for her anymore, and she usually gives me twins.

Prior to breeding my does and bucks get a checkup. I check for lice, I check eyelid color, I trim hooves, and I give copper, if needed.

*2. Care of your doe during pregnancy (feed, suppl, shots, etc)*

All during pregnancy, my does either get alfalfa hay, or free-choice Alfalfa pellets. Usually the alfalfa pellets is what's available. I have noticed that after starting to give them as much of it as they want, twice a day, I've had stronger contractions and pushes during labor.

2nd or 3rd moth of pregnancy, if the does aren't already dry, we will dry up their milk production, so their udder has time to rest, and they can make colostrum for their new kids.

Some of my does, especially first time does, get a small amount of grain at night. I usually end up giving about a cup; I want to give them nutrition, but not over-grow the kids. This is adjusted per doe. My first timers will probably always get grain, but the same doe that gave me quads is small, and likes cooking big babies, so she gets no grain at all during pregnancy - only alfalfa pellets and hay.

4th month of pregnancy, my does will get a hoof trim, I replenish the kidding kit, and I give them a bit of a kidding trim. Two to six weeks before delivery, each doe gets a small pinch of Red Raspberry Leaves a day. It is excellent for uterine health, and seems to help them with kidding ease. I copper bolus them, if needed.

30 days before due date, my does get their CD/T shot.

5th month of pregnancy, I give them a bit of selenium gel, since selenium deficiency is an issue in my herd. I keep my doe as comfortable and stress- free as possible. I prepare the kidding stall, and check my vet list. One week before due date, I give her one chewable vitamin C a day, as a mastitis preventative. This will continue until she is a month fresh.

3. *Care of your doe and kids right after kidding(feed, suppl, shots, etc)*

First thing, I clean baby's nose and bond it to mommy. Then I encourage them to get colostrum. This can take as long as 20 minutes, so don't get discouraged. They can be super clueless. :laugh:

My doe gets a whole handful of raspberry leaves to aid in recovery. Twice a day now she'll get a handful of raspberry leaves in her food. It significantly improves recovery in my herd.

Kids get their umbilicals tied, and dipped in Nav-All, Vetricyn, or Iodine.

Mom gets dewormed. Since I deworm herbally, she gets a double herbal dose for three days after delivery.

I collect a small bit of colostrum to replenish my emergency supply.

I also usually give my kids a little bit of selenium gel, especially if they're having suckling issues.

4. * Care of the kids after birth and the days following.*

In addition to what's posted above, I check on the kids through the first night to make sure they stay warm, and are nursing. As much as I possibly can, I play with and snuggle the kids to produce friendly, easy to handle babies that are a joy and can be sold as pets. Starting at about 4 days, I also deworm my kids herbally, twice a week.

1 to 3 weeks old, they get disbudded. I give them "Ow Eze" before disbudding, then re-introduce them to mom butt-first so she isn't weirded out by the smell.

2 weeks old, kids start to be separated at night, so I can milk in the morning. First few times I do this, I don't go for the 12 hour fill, I start at 8 hours and if it goes well, go to 12 hours. This is for the dam and the kids; I don't want to over stress the kids, or over stress the dam's udder.

3 weeks old, they are given a preventative coccidia dose. (Coccidia seems to be the only worm I can't prevent with herbs - I pick my battles).

I plan to vaccinate my kids against CD/T at 4 and 7 weeks old, so the boys are protected during castration, and they are done in time for their new home.

At about 7 weeks, I band the bucklings. I give them Ow-Eze before, and often the morning after the process. I blu-kote the area twice a week.

PHEW. Heaven help me if I forgot something. :lol:


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## burtfarms

I don't know how much more I could add that everybody else has already said,
We breed in Colorado in the summer, and kid in Utah during the winter (it is a lot warmer)
We make sure they have their Bose shots,CDT and dewormed with ivomec, because we live by a river. Prior to breeding.
When we go back to Utah its about a month pre-kid, we again give Bose,CDT, and deworm, set up kidding pens make sure all birthing supplies are together and wait for the babies to arrive.
We feed pasture as well as alfalfa, does that are nursing get molasses water, grain to encourage milk production, babies get Bose if needed and vitamint B. And hooves get checked monthly.


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## toth boer goats

I do like Nancy D does, so I cannot add more. She said it well and that is basically what I do. :hi5:


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## Tenacross

Were we only supposed to answer the one question about "after kidding"?

*When your doe has kidded, what do you give her and kids?? 
Step by Step instructions on what you do for both Doe and Kids. 
Include everything you can think of that you do on your farm. 
*
*The Doe:* I'm a believer in the warm molasses water to encourage good water intake. I usually manually bring the bucket to the doe and put it in front of her face as sometimes they are too busy worrying about the new babies to search out something to drink. Often they will guzzle quite a bit. I sometimes continue the molasses water for up to 3 days for does that prefer it. I often have one two gallon bucket with molasses water and the other with fresh straight water. I switch them to straight water as soon as possible.

I'm now watching very closely how this new-mom doe is acting. I want her to be quite hungry and drink quite a bit of water. If they won't eat their feed, this is not good and you want to be taking their temperature and doing whatever to get them in the feed tub. I sometimes give a shot of banamine to does who seem painful, keeping in mind that this also will mask a fever for 12 hours. Other tricks to get them turning the right direction if not eating well would be: Super nice leafy alfalfa. Blackberry leaves. Douglas Fir boughs. Fortified B Complex. Also, if they are not cleaning up their feed, I take it away from them and/or cut way back until they decide they do indeed want me to feed them. Meaning, I do NOT feed more than they will eat. Ideally, I want the doe to be eating two heaping cereal bowls of goat feed twice a day. I keep the hay feeder full. I watch their udder closely. I've found that my does often seem to not be milking all that much and then at about one week post kidding their milk comes in nicely. I like to keep does and kids isolated in a private pen for at least one week.

*Kids:*I like to wipe the slime and sack off the kid's head with a clean dry towel immediately as they come out. Then put the kid in front of the doe and hope they go crazy and start licking the kid etc. I dip navels with iodine. If cold out, I put them in a warming barrel with a heat lamp. It usually takes a couple of times in and out of the warming barrel and then the kids get it and pretty much live in there. Much to their mother's dismay. The warming barrel works so well that it is like cheating in cold weather. If newborn kids are the type that are nursing within an hour and moving around pretty well, I don't give them anything medication wise. Colostrum is magical stuff and all a normal newborn kid needs, IMO. If a kid is weak and or funky legged, I do give 1/2 cc BoSe SQ and a Vit E capsule orally. Other tricks include a squirt of nurtridrench and 1/2 - 1cc of Fortified B Complex orally. But again, I would only do this as a way to get them better able to take colostrum on their own as that is the magic bullet, not the man made stuff. I do not hesitate to stomach tube super-slow-to-nurse kids with 2ozs (60ccs) of colostrum if they just aren't getting it. I often do this and then put them in the warming barrel and go back to bed. It's not that I don't try to help them nurse, but if after an hour or so they still haven't nursed, one time tubing with the magic colostrum and a nap in the warming barrel and they wake up 2-4 hours later strong and hungry. Tubing a kid is a skill a goat herder should know how to do just like "going in" a doe during a difficult kidding. Both are scary at first, but will save a lot of goats in the long run and not near as difficult as your brain originally thinks.

Newborn kids should should have full bellies and sleep a lot. A lot. When they wake up, (go ahead and wake them up when you check on them), they should stretch, pee and look for something to eat. "Popcorning" and generally acting delightful and cute are very good signs when awake. The most common causes of death in newborn kids is hypothermia and starvation. Warming the kid is the cure for hypothermia and COLOSTRUM is the cure for starvation. Make sure they are warm before curing starvation.


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## nancy d

Well said Tim.


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## chelsboers

I do pretty much the same as what others have listed
I have only Boers so I'm sure it's different for someone with a dairy herd. We have 10 does

30 days Prior to Fall breeding for both does and bucks:
Trim hooves, Check eyelids (deworm as needed), Copper bolus, start them on 16% grain once a day. I keep ACV in their water all summer so I just continue adding it
During Pregnancy:
Good hay 27/7 and grain once a day. Grain is 16% with beet pulp. Loose minerals left out
4 weeks before kidding: CD/T shot for all. I trim hooves as needed and depending on how tame the doe is. I don't want to cause extra stress and most of my does don't need it anyway. I shave around their tails and a little on the back of their back legs just so they aren't as messy. Trim their udders (helps me judge udder development, not a necessity) Start giving raspberry leaves in their feed. Give Selenium+Vit E gel
Week before kidding I put them in a kidding pen. This keeps my LGD from stealing the babies. My kidding pens can comfortable keep 2 does so sometimes I add a buddy. It works for me because most of the time it is a relative that helps clean the new babies off if I miss the birth. 
Kidding:
Sit on my hands unless the doe really needs help with delivery. Help clean faces and mouth. Dip cord. Make sure kids nurse within the first hour. Let mom and kids bond for a couple hours. Give doe grain with raspberry leaves and warm water with molasses while I weigh kids and check them over (teats, eyes, ears). If the ears are flipped up I fix them at this time and make notes for record book. Make sure afterbirth is expelled within the next 12 hours
Doe after kidding: 
I wait until the next day and check eyelids and give a dewormer if needed and continue with raspberry leaves for the next couple days. I also continue giving them grain and gradually increase the amount given depending on the number of kids and the condition of the doe until the kids are weaned. They are kept in the pen with their kids for the first week
Kids until weaning:
Weigh once a month to keep track of growth. At 4 weeks we start creep feeding. At 6 weeks I give kids their first CD/T shot. At 9 weeks we wether the boys and give all the kids their CD/T booster and ear tags. Male kids are weaned between 9-12 weeks depending on when the 4H kids need to pick them up. Girls are weaned between 12-16 depending on growth and how the mom is holding up.
After weaning:
All does are given at least 3 months to gain weight/condition until they are bred again. I wait until does are at least a year old before breeding

Okay I think I covered everything. Each doe/kid is different and each kidding is different but those are the basics the rest is just as needed.


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## nancy d

Buck Naked Boers said:


> Nancy: I have a few questions for you too! ️
> 
> 1. My doe had cd antitoxin a while back. So I gave CDT shot about a month ago. Someone said I should give a booster now, another CDT. Is this correct?
> 
> 2. My doe is due sometime in the next week. She had a shot of BOSE 4-8-15. Would you give another shot now??
> 
> 3. What wormer do you worm with?
> 
> 4. Do you worm the kids for cocci? If so when and what do you use?
> 
> 5. When are kids given regular wormer? At what age do you worm? And how often, what is the schedule to worm that you use for kids?
> 
> Thank you in advance for all your answers!! We really appreciate the help!!


 Yes she can have her CDT booster. Some farms even give a series of 3.

Unless your doe is down on her pasterns she does not really need another shot of BoSe but it wont hurt her or the kids. I say this with having mistakenly given two does a re-dose something like 10 days later. I flipped out but they were fine)

Currently we use Ivermectin orally, always the day of kidding & another dose 10 days later.
I don't worm kids until they are ready to be weaned or going to new home.

We don't do cocci prevention but I do have meds on hand in case. Thought I had a few cases & treated, found out later they were eating buttercups.:roll:


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## goathiker

Buck Naked Boers said:


> 1. What time of year do you give the pneumonia shot? What is the name of the vaccine you give for that? I want to try that this year.
> 
> I give it in the fall coming up to breeding, I still use this vaccine, others are using an intranasal for cows http://www.jefferspet.com/products/...84a49fa2600f000003c1/533884a69fa2600f000003d9
> 
> 2. What is lysine shots? What is that for? Should they get this yearly even if they aren't bred? What time of year should it be given?
> 
> Lysigin is a vaccine against staff infection. It should be given to unbred yearlings and then yearly after that. Probably not needed for Boers.
> 
> 3. Because I had to give my doe cd antitoxin a while back, I gave her a CDT shot a month ago. Someone said to give a booster now. Just checking, should I do that? She is due this week. Please let me know soon about this if possible
> 
> Anti-toxin does not kill antibodies from the original vaccine, that is a myth...Just treat her like normal.
> 
> 4. Is having a nursery box important or can I just have a corner with heat lamp for them? She is due this weekend. Supposed to be pretty warm this weekend. So I wasn't sure if a special kid box would be necessary.
> 
> You're not going to need anything this time of year, my kids are 5 months old :lol:
> 
> 5. So when you give honey water is it just honey water or do you put powdered electrolytes in it too??
> 
> Just honey and a bit of salt
> 
> 6. When do you worm the babies for cocci?
> 
> Every 18 days until 12 weeks old
> 
> 7. The b-12 you give the babies orally, is that the same stuff for shots?
> 
> Yes, but it's B complex, not B12


Safeguard is given with cocci meds, they work together against cocci.


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## Tenacross

I would like to share something that has proven to make a huge difference in my kidding success. As has already been said, situations very from location to location and what works for some might not even be relevant for others. I live in rainy/wet western Washington.

My first year of kidding was not good. I think I averaged about 60% live babies to the number conceived. My theories and practices are constantly changing and being adjusted, but if I had to narrow things down to one thing that made a huge difference FOR ME, it is being AGGRESSIVE with *selenium supplementation*. There are more ways to supplement than just BoSe. I have also had good luck feeding a selenium and Vit E pellet made for horses the last 45 days of pregnancy. I am truly pressing the line of what is considered safe for goats with my selenium supplementation. *For me*, giving 3ccs of BoSe once before breeding and 30 days out would not be enough. If I'm doing it right for me, I am giving more like 5ccs before breeding. Another 5ccs at 30 days out and *another* 3-5 ccs a few days before I think they are going to kid. That's *if* I'm relying only on BoSe. I think using the dietary pellets is even better and I was giving pretty much the recommended dose for a full grown horse to my does once per day this year. (gasp) 

Results this year: 27 kids conceived. 27 live healthy kids. 
Only one doe received antibiotics post kidding. And she might not have needed it.
Most placentas fully dropped within one hour post kidding.
Most kids mobile and nursing within 30 minutes. 
I did help with a few does, but seemed to have way less dystocias.
Second and third kids born often arrived in under five minutes from the first. 
Most does quickly recovered from kidding, "drama free" and kept eating full feed.

Cons: For me.... (your vet may be cringing and thinking about possible toxicity)
I had four does that gave absolutely no signs of kidding and went before I could put them in a stall and had them in the barn or pasture. Where my does used to quit eating their feed 6-12 hours before kidding and obviously act "off", now they may eat a full bowl of feed and then lay down and kid. They may or may not have the tell tale amber rope discharge.

Bottom line: What I think many of us have been told are just "the hazards of raising goats" are actually a result of selenium deficiency. I have no doubt that you could kill a goat with too much selenium, every vet will tell you this, yet I have never heard of it actually happening. Yet. However, unfortunately, I often hear of lost does and kids from kidding. The info on BoSe clearly states that it can cause ewes to abort. I have had experienced breeders tell me the same on goats. I have personally never had a doe abort after a BoSe shot, but when I really really don't want to take any chances, I go the extra mile and feed the selenium and Vit E in a supplement individually to my doe. You have to watch your doses with the supplements. The very experienced Saanen breeder that taught me this way of thinking for my area of the world claims that if a goat is getting too much selenium they will start tearing from the eyes and go off of feed. I never had that happen this year, but was watching out for it.

Tim


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## goathiker

I was once told that the 1 cc per 40 lbs. was just a maintainance dose. I have given that dose once a month for several months to a wether with no ill effects.


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## Jessica84

Mines pretty simple. I don't do much before breeding other then check to see if anyone needs to be wormed since I don't want to give them anything while Prego. I think I am going to start giving bose shots before breeding though since I did have 2 does not breed this year and other signs of needing selenium. 
Roughly a month before they are due they are placed (slowly) on alfalfa hay if they are not already on it (I buy what I can buy lol) the does also get their feet trimmed (I don't like to mess with them till their kids are a month or two old) copper bolus, again I might start to give Bose at this time as well, cdt shot, and vitamin A D shot. 
I then leave them be since I'm breeding for warmer weather kiddings. 
If they kid at night or if it ends up being cold that day mom and babies get moved to a stall. If it's warm they simply get moved to a smaller community pen, also if the doe is semi clueless they go in a stall so they can bond with the kids. For the kids all I do is make sure there's no gunk in their nose or mouth, I kinda da a fast cleaning of that area and leave them alone. If mom had a hard time she gets some molasses and water and some grain.
The next day does are wormed and again in 10 days.
At about a week old kids get disbudded and since I already have them in my hands that's when they get their first cocci treatment. 4 weeks old they get another cocci treatment and a copper bolus. 8-9 weeks old I band them if I know they won't be selling as a buck and worm if needed. And starting this year 3 months old I wean (I have been selling as a way of weaning at 4 months old)
Ok I think that's all I do lol


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Here is my management here, kinda all over the place, but you get the gist of it.

All my does and bucks get a shot of Multimin90, and Vitamin AD-E300 and wormed 30 days before I plan on breeding. Hooves trimmed if needed. This is also usually when I personally start moving to once a day milking, then dry off in October <I would milk longer if I had a barn>.

After they are bred I still continue milking the doe for a little bit longer. If she is in good condition, I will wean her off grain and begin graining again at 3.5 months pregnant. If they are thinner, they stay grain the whole way through, or I will hold off on breeding her. If they are fat, those are my does that usually never see a crumb of grain.

My does still continue to get their feet trimmed throughout their pregnancy, they are easy to handle. But if yours thrash, maybe only do it if you have to.

They get free choice alfalfa and oat hay year round, I alternate.

At about 2 months pregnant I will copper bolus them, then they will get their mineral and vitamin shots again 30 days before kidding, along with CD&T. 
12 weeks into lactation, they will get another copper bolus, which is usually in June or July <I stagger their bolus and shots, they get the shots 2x a year, and the bolus 2x a year>

365 days a year they have loose minerals out. I currently use Vitaferm Concept Aid 5/S. 
For grain, I just use a 16% dairy feed. It's pellets, cob, and cottonseed in a nutshell.

When kidding time rolls around, they get their back ends clipped, and their udder clipped. If I'm pulling babies, they usually go into a bucket in the house for a few days, but sometimes I let them stay with mom and I'll pull them the next morning when I kick mom back out to the doe pen. Both work just fine for me, I don't have CAE or anything in my herd, so I'm not bothered by letting the doe nurse them in the beginning.

18-21 days, kids get wormed and cocci treated. Cocci treated again 10 days later then every 18-21 days until well grown. I worm kids once a month, usually every 21 days for 3 days with valbazen, then I use zimectrin gold or quest/quest plus.

Does get wormed the day after kidding, then again in late May/early june, and again before breeding.

Weaning, that happens anywhere from 3 months to whenever I feel like it or get around to it :lol: Dam raised *DOE* kids usually have the luxury of not being weaned until breeding season, unless I need the milk for something else, and my bottle/lambar *DOE* kids will usually stay on milk for as long as I'm milking the does. For the bucks, they get weaned in the beginning of September, which is really late to some, but mine do not cycle until the end of September/early October. So the bucks could be 7 months by then, or right at 3 months if I have a late kidding. 
Kids I'm selling leave as bottle babies, or they get weaned at 3 months and they're on their way.

Doe kids are usually bred at 7-9 months old, to kid their 1st year. But if they just aren't mature enough, or is slow growing, I will hold them over, as much as I hate it :lol:

As far as graining the kids, if I have the extra money to creep feed them, that's great, but I usually don't so they grow on milk and hay.


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## happybleats

1. Care of your doe prior to getting pregnant. (feed, suppl, etc)
we keep our moms in good flesh...not too fat or thin...we be sure hoof care is met and they are parasite free..we feed grain year round since they are either in milk or heavy bred ( we stop milking at 3 month bred)...amounts are adjusted as needed...BoSe is given to moms prior to breeding, Bucks after breeding ( BoSe can slow the swimmers)
2. Care of your doe during pregnancy (feed, suppl, shots, etc)
same as prior to breeding..
3. Care of your doe and kids right after kidding(feed, supply, shots, etc)
moms get Valbazen, Babies get 1/4 cc BoSo..molasses water is offered to mom, babies umbilical cords are dipped...we make sure everyone is up and nursing on their own before we leave them alone...we make sure mom delivers her after birth..one for each kid...some times in multiples, two kids can share one placenta , but usually its larger...
4. Care of the kids after birth and the days following.
we give Baycox at 3 weeks old...
our doe has kidded to know what we should be doing. And having to ask a bunch of questions can actually be avoided if we have sticky's or postings such as this.

there is little to do as long as all is well...after babies are born we check on them several times during the first week...make sure everyone is active, playful, ect..we begin milking mom right away so we keep tabs on her udder .....weather plays a roll too...if its cold..mom and baby need a draft free shelter.....in warmer months they need plenty of air circulation...ect...

Most important is enjoy..relax 99% of the time all goes well..but be prepared for that 1% : ) just in case..


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## packhillboers

So much good information to learn here. I'm learning and preparing again also. I am able to really keep a close eye out on all of our does when they are getting close. I see a great importance of not just letting the does run with the buck. You will not know when they will be due and will more than likely miss out on the kidding experience and any problems. I keep record of when the doe(s) are in with the buck.. when they go out and if they come back in cycle. This saves me a lot of hassle later. 

I really work on the mamma drinking her warm molasses water and I will give calcium supplements if needed during labor and after kidding. My vets really are not willing to give me the BoSe shots so I am tired of asking about it. I work on getting a dosage into them with extra supplements via E-Sel gel and may try another type as well. 

When kids are born, especially mutltiples, its important to monitor them to make sure that they all get some colostrum within the first half hour. I usually milk some out and give a squirt into the mouths of any that are not able to latch on right away. New moms may act like the babies are hurting when they eat and may associate the birth contractions with babies nursing. This takes patience with a Doe that doesnt want to nurse her babies, but with your help, she will be able to figure it out. 

Be there for the births if it is possible. Plan around the birth time if you are able to be present.


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## packhillboers

Oh.. yes.. clip their tails. you won't be sorry you did that. It really helps to have that tail hair clipped. 
We also de-worm again between 1-3 days after the mamma kids. Our young goats don't get any de-wormer until at about 5 months. We have done a 5 day cocci prevention treatment when needed and have given medicated feed. For our freezer wethers, we don't de-worm with any chemical de-wormers.


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## Jessica84

Pack hill boers go to vetserv.com and you can get bose. You will have to sign up ahead of time and takes a few days to, I assume make sure your not a drug dealer or anything lol, but they have a lot of stuff you can get that you normally have to have a get for. Fair warning, they are NOT fast on shipping. I signed up and ordered lute as fast as I was approved and got it right in time to give to the does (2weeks)


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## Frosty

I don't have much to offer. This year was my first and it was a learning expierince and a wake up call for me. I was frantic after they kidded and looked so undernourished. I guess I got it under control cause the vet. was here today and said all look good..Wish I had something to offer but need to learn myself.


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## TDG-Farms

Bo-Se plus vit E gel a month before breeding for both does and bucks. We hand breed so the bucks dont get over taxed and we know exactly the date the doe is suppose to kid.
Same feed as always. But we feed a good quality alfalfa all year round. (Here think of it as you get what you pay for in terms of kids you will be getting. Feed a crap hay, expect crap kids) Keep mineral feeders full of a good usable mix.
Calvary 9 vaccines 1 month before kidding.
2-4 weeks before kidding (depending upon conditioning and weather the doe is stand offish) start bring in for grain on the milk stand. This is so they are used to coming in to get milked and having their udders touched.
Kids are born into a dry clean pen or area of the barn. If we are not going to be there, then we will pen her in a kidding pen. Hay and water available.
We keep lube, kidding snare, uterine boluses, clean towels, pretchard teet and bottle, iodine in a spray bottle, bo-se, vit e gels, all on hand for kiddings. With the iodine (3 or more times the first day), bo-se and vit e gels used directly after kidding.
If we are forced to milk the doe, we never milk more then about 1/3 of her udders capacity to prevent milk fever. 
If staying in the kidding pen, completely remove the soggy bedding and replace with new bedding (Straw for adults animals, Straw over pine shavings for babies)
Make sure the babies have nice full bellies, go get some sleep


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## Buck Naked Boers

Oh my goodness!!!! I want to thank all of you for the tremendous response to this thread! What wonderful information you have shared with all of us who are learning about kidding!! THANK YOU all so very much from our farm to yours! Wish I could give you all a big hug! :hug:
Thank you!! I will be responding hopefully to all the posts....it will take me a bit of time. Today was 'field day' at my son's school. I will take more time to respond in the morning. Thank you again so much! I look forward to more posts if anyone has more to add. What a blessing this is to us since we are nearly in the throws of kidding here at our farm. Thank you!!!!!

Tami, Jon & kids


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## Trickyroo

I can't add anything that hasn't been said already 
What a wonderful thread !

In case you don't have a warming barrel , get yourself some doggie sweaters at the petshop. Nows a good time to pick up some half off or even more for next years cold weather kiddings. Much safer then using the heat lamps if you don't have to IMO. 
Look up videos tubing kids get yourself the supplies , you never know when you will need them. Here's a great video on how to tube feed 






Your going to do great  You couldnt be in a better place for backup if needed


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## Blackheadedboers

I raise boer goats as well. Most are my practices are the same as the one posted before. However, my goats are free range, so I lock up does about three weeks before kidding as the land starts to loose nutrition. At this time I give Bose and cdt. My does are only fed alfalfa. And usually only get grain if they are yearling ff. another difference between my operation is that my does wean their own kids. They usually do this on their own when their kids are five months old( except my Nubian who insists on feeding till seven months old) other than that everything else I do is the same as most boer breeders.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Good Afternoon Everyone!!! 
Wow what fantastic information!!! Thank you Nancy and Jill for answering my questions earlier. Sorry I haven't responded until now. Yesterday was a busy day.

My daughter 'goat whisperer' on goatspot....and I went through the comments and we have a few questions. Please realize we are new to kidding so our questions might sound funny. I have labeled questions to specific people but feel free to answer the questions if you know the answers:

*Anawhitfield*: What is Lytalyse? Where does a person buy it and is it necessary?

*Anawhitfield & Tenacross*: How much Molasses in a bucket of water do you use for the doe??

*Threehavens:* How do you tie a cord? Why do you do it? What do you use to tie a cord?
*Threehavens: *What do you use for cocci dosing for kids? Baycox? What is dosage?

*Chelsea & ThreeHavens:* Raspberry leaves for doe....I have limited supply where I live fresh. Should I buy them at the store dried as herb? If I do that is doseage less?

*Chelsea: *How do you 'fix' bent ears? Can you give specifics?

*Goathiker(Jill):* Do you use Baycox every 18 days until 12 wks old for babies? What is dosage?
*Goathiker(Jill):* Safeguard doesn't work here. What would you use as wormer for kids? Is Quest too strong for kids? Maybe should I try Ivormectin? or Valbazen? What is dosage for them??

*Jessica: *You give copper bolus for babies at 4 wks old?? Nobody else does that here so far that I read on this thread. So how much do you give them?? 2 gr?
*Jessica: *Your cocci treatment for your babies...do you use baycox at 1 wk and 4 wks? dosage?

*Cathy: *Do you dose baycox for cocci on babies twice?? Dosage?

*Dave: *Is Calvary 9 vaccine better than CDT? Why? When do you use this vaccine other than breeding time?
*Dave: *Uterine Boluses?? Expand information on this please :thumb:.
*Dave: *Vit E Gel*- *Do you use the gel caps? I have some here. So do you just prick the capsule and squeeze it into the babies mouths? Do you give it to all babies, one cap per baby? Or does just mom get this? Wasn't clear on that.

*Trickyroo:* Thanks for the tip on the dog coats for goats! Our daughter found a pattern online to make goat coats. She is making some for them out of a old fleece blanket she had. They should be plenty warm we hope.

*General Question: *The temperatures are supposed to be in the high80's low 90's this weekend and down in the 50's at night. Can you tell me if the babies are wearing coats at night do they still need a heat lamp at night with these temps? I don't want them to get pnuemonia! I hate these swinging temps we have been getting this spring. Way worse this year for some reason!
we have been having 60s for highs until this weekend. So really different temps. I am hoping she waits to have them until we go back into the 70's! But will see what happens!

Thank you again everyone for your support and all the great information on this thread!

We appreciate all of you!

Tami, Jon & kids


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## top_goat

Following...


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## goathiker

Buck Naked Boers said:


> *Goathiker(Jill):* Do you use Baycox every 18 days until 12 wks old for babies? What is dosage?
> *Goathiker(Jill):* Safeguard doesn't work here. What would you use as wormer for kids? Is Quest too strong for kids? Maybe should I try Ivormectin? or Valbazen? What is dosage for them??


I don't use Baycox and won't until nothing else works anymore. I rotate between Sulmet, DiMethox (Albon), or, SMX-TMZ every few years.

Quest is your last resort wormer. It should never be used as a first choice. I also never use Ivermectin on any kid under 6 months old.(Dose is 1 cc per 22 lbs for regular and 1 cc per 33 lbs for plus, orally). Valbazen may be a good choice for you. (Dose is 1 cc per 10 lbs orally). Most important in worm control is to never let the pasture get less than 4 to inches tall, never to let them out on wet grass, and to keep their feet out of their food.


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## Tenacross

Re: Molasses in the water

I generally just pour a moderate "glug" into the bottom of the bucket. 
I like my little 2.5 gallon water buckets and I would estimate the proper
amount is about a tablespoon. It's not crucial. I feel like the molasses water
can loosen their stool a little, so I try not to get too crazy with it.


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## Jessica84

This year yes I started at 4 weeks. The last few years I have been doing it at 8 weeks but we're already showing major signs of needing copper. So I changed it up and went with 4 weeks. My older kids are now just shy of 2 months and I am very pleased with how they look. Dose is 2grams. Yes that is enough for a larger kid but not joking when I say copper is a issue here.
Yes I use baycox. Honestly I would use something else but it's almost impossible to catch so many kids and give for 5 days. Usually the first day goes good, second day they are keeping a eye on me but can usually still catch them, 3-5, that's a joke and I'm starting to feel old lol. If I had a smaller pen I really would use something else because that baycox is not cheap!! As for dose I do 1cc per 5lbs
Now for your question about coats and heat lamps, this is me but I would leave them be. I hate coats and heat lamps. I think it's more hard on them because one day they are not going to have them and their body is going to need to adjust and I think it makes it more hard for them. That's my 2 cents. If they are dry by the time the sun goes down I don't think there's anything to worry about. If they are born or still damp then I put them in a stall to keep any draft off them. It seems wind is more a issue them the cold.


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## RaineyDayFarms

I've found baycox to be the most helpful for coccidia. It's easier to dose and seemed to work the best. 
Dosed at 1cc per 5 pounds, I started at 3 weeks and repeated every 3 weeks until they were about 7-8 months. 

I agree with Jessica. Wind and rain are more of a concern here. I had kids born when temps got down to 50 and they handled it very well. They were in stalls, but I didn't do lights out of fear they catch something on fire. Then again we don't have cold temps, so I can't add too much.


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## Tenacross

Buck Naked Boers said:


> *General Question: *The temperatures are supposed to be in the high80's low 90's this weekend and down in the 50's at night. Can you tell me if the babies are wearing coats at night do they still need a heat lamp at night with these temps? I don't want them to get pnuemonia! I hate these swinging temps we have been getting this spring. Way worse this year for some reason!
> we have been having 60s for highs until this weekend. So really different temps. I am hoping she waits to have them until we go back into the 70's! But will see what happens!


I recently had two does kid with similar temperatures and temperature fluctuations. I didn't even bother with any of the above. They did fine.
I use the warming barrels for 40 degree and lower weather.


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## TDG-Farms

*Dave: *Is Calvary 9 vaccine better than CDT? Why? When do you use this vaccine other than breeding time?
*Dave: *Uterine Boluses?? Expand information on this please :thumb:.
*Dave: *Vit E Gel*- *Do you use the gel caps? I have some here. So do you just prick the capsule and squeeze it into the babies mouths? Do you give it to all babies, one cap per baby? Or does just mom get this? Wasn't clear on that.

*Calvary 9* is the latest CD/T vaccine. CD/T is considered a 3 way. Calvary 9 is a 9 way. So it covers what CD/T does and more. Somethings that it covers are more cow related, but its a better vaccine all around. A little more expensive though.

*Uterine Boluses* are large antibiotic pills. After you assist with a kidding and hopefully after the doe drops her placenta (but can be done before as they desolve pretty fast). Pretty much anytime you have to put your hands in to assist, you are going to wanna start a course of antibiotics. The uterine boluses get you started.

*Vit-E gels* should be giving at the same time you give bo-se (1cc orally). There is vit e in bo-se but not enough. Vitamin E is crucial in the absorption of selenium. We use the gels you can buy at any pharmacy type store. You can place them in the corner of your mouth and dampen the ends with your tongue. Typically they are soft enough to squeeze into the corner of the babies mouth after you have sprayed the cord with iodine and given the bo-se. Then just squeeze into the corner of the kids mouth and it will pop.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

*Regarding Valbazen: * It only works for me if I use it 3 days in a row, once doesn't do squat for my goats. I also have one that is allergic to it, so just keep an eye out. And NEVER ever ever use it on a pregnant doe, I don't care how many people say it's safe. Blunt and honest truth, I had birth defects and deformities using it when I didn't know she was pregnant, so for that reason, I will never say it's safe on a pregnant animal.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Thank you Jill!! We will try Valbazen I think. We have been using a herbal wormer that actually is shocking me with how well it has been working! I shouldn't be shocked but I am. =) Just checked our numbers and we are doing quite well on worms! I don't worm unless the number is over 500 on any given worm.....not sure if others do that but that is what we do. We haven't had to worm for quite a while other than cocci.

Baycox works for us....so my thought is that we will use that as needed. We can always switch to Albon at some point. I like the twice dose (over a period of time) vs the 5 day dose option with Albon. So for now I think we will stick with that. That is a great med! So glad you told us about that a while back!! I understand why you don't use it though, if other stuff works for you then that is a great reason to not switch to Baycox.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Thanks Tenacross!! That gives me a good idea of how much molasses I will need to put in the bucket. I appreciate the info!!


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## anawhitfield

Lutalyse is a shot I get from my vet and it was originally intended to induce abortion in early pregnancy by causing contractions to expel the contents of the uterus. Now, I don't use it for abortions. I use it when a doe shows signs of post-kidding infection, when she didn't expel all of the placenta. Lutalyse along with antibiotics are a life-saver. I only buy 2-3 doses each year because they do have an expiration date and if I don't end up using them, I cannot return them for a refund.

Molasses - I don't measure it. I fill up a small bucket with water and pour maybe 1/4 - 1/2 cup of molasses. I don't know for sure because I never measured it.
And speaking of molasses, in Georgia we only get really, really cold weather a few days a year. During those days I give ALL my animals warm water with molasses in it. It's like a hot cup of tea on a cold day  ... Plus, the molasses gives them a boost of energy.


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## happybleats

> Cathy: Do you dose baycox for cocci on babies twice?? Dosage?


I dose once at 3 weeks...I will repeat only if I see a need....or if a kid is already showing signs of cocci..then I will booster in 10 days...1 cc per 5#

I never use coats on our kids..even if its very cold...we provide draft free shelter and also in that we set up dog houses for kids to snuggle in...we used to use heat lamps but they scare me too much...cant sleep lol...


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## anawhitfield

Thank you Buck Naked Boers for starting this thread. I am learning so much from the other folks.


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## Jessica84

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> *Regarding Valbazen: * It only works for me if I use it 3 days in a row, once doesn't do squat for my goats. I also have one that is allergic to it, so just keep an eye out. And NEVER ever ever use it on a pregnant doe, I don't care how many people say it's safe. Blunt and honest truth, I had birth defects and deformities using it when I didn't know she was pregnant, so for that reason, I will never say it's safe on a pregnant animal.


Me too!!! I had a kid born that looked like one of those polish chickens. Lost my doe over the little freak too. Now granted it was on out of like 30 but that one stung worse then anything. I used it that first year with my goats and that happened, then I stayed the heck away from it but this year I used it for after they kidded.....I know 100% that they are so not bred then lol


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## lottsagoats1

What I do:

About a month before I plan to breed:
I give the does selenium (BOSE is I can get it) and copper boluses. 
I check for worms and deworm if needed. 
Add feed if they are down in weight, take away feed if they are too fat. If I plan on flushing, I start at this time. (flushing is raising the amount of concentrates {grains and commercial feeds} so the doe releases more eggs)
Trim feet

When they come in heat, I breed each doe to the buck of choice. I breed each doe once, hand bred, so I know what date to start the kidding count at.

After breeding, I keep them on a higher plane of nutrition until they do not ocme back in heat and I figure they are bred. Then I back their grain down to what it was before breeding. This is so the does body knows that it can sustain a multiple pregnancy. I have dairy goats so I am still milking for another 3 months. They need that grain for the production. 

At 3 most post breeding, I dry my does off so the last 2 months will be spent growing the fetuses. I make sure they are getting what they need for vitamins and minerals, especially calcium, by adding calcium supplement to their loose minerals.

6 weeks before the kidding date, I give them their Pneumonia, Rabies and CDT vaccines if needed.

My goats get grained year round, the hay up here is horrible and I feel they need it.

Starting about 2 weeks form kidding date, I start checking them several times a day for ligaments, udder growth and dropped belly (kids have moved into birthing position)

Unless the doe is a FF or very timid, I don't separate them from the herd, they kid in the communal doe pen. If I am moving them, I do it when they show signs of labor.

I try to be there when they kid, but work sometimes gets in the way. If it is important that the kids get pulled at birth, I will give them a hormone injection to cause labor so I will have a better idea when they will be kidding.

I assist with the birthing. I dunk the umbilical cord with iodine and make sure they are dry and eating, either from Mom or a bottle. If they are a bottle kid, they go up to my house.

Doe is checked for tearing, working teats and making sure she has passed her kids and the afterbirth.

Oops, gotta go, more later


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## Buck Naked Boers

Good Evening Friends! Wow I am so thankful for all the comments and information....this is just wonderful! Thank you!

*Jessica: *How do you know when your herd is copper deficient....you have obvious stuff going on there, can you share that with me/us? Give examples if possible, thank you! This is good info to know! I am not sure we are super deficient in copper....but we did have our soils tested last fall. Wonder if that would be a good start to look at that? I am going to have our water tested too.

*Raineyday: *Thank you!! That is wonderful information you shared! We appreciate that!

*Tenacross: *Thank you for the info on coats/heat lamps and what temps you use the warming barrels at. That is helpful! Especially since you are a bit further north than where we are! Good to know about the fluctuations you had and how your kids were just fine. I can be a worrier....my kids will tell you that! =) So it is good to know we don't need to be so worried. Our doe still hasn't had her babies.. We are hoping she will wait until temps are not so hot such as over the weekend. But will see.


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## Buck Naked Boers

*Dave: *Thank you for that information in answer to my questions. So where do you buy the boluses? What are they called. I just have not heard of that before I don't think. So the antibiotic you would use after having to go into the womb would be pennicilin right? So you would start with one bolus and then a shot of pennicilin?

So in your opinion, BOSE doesn't have enough Vit E? That is why you give them a softgel? So you just squeeze it into their mouth and take it out right? You don't let the softgel stay in their mouth?

Calvary 9 sounds like a good option for CDT....wonder why more people don't seem to use it here? Or haven't heard alot about it here anyway....maybe there are more people who use it. Not sure.

Thank you Dave for all this information! Sure appreciate it. Learning as much as we can.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Thank you *Little Bits and Pieces! *We appreciate the info on Valbazen! I am not sure yet for sure what I will use. My Does worm numbers came back pretty low so I may not need to worm her....
Is that ok not to do if her numbers are low??


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## Buck Naked Boers

*Anawhitfield: *Thank you so much for the additional info on Molasses! Wow sounds like your goats are treated very well! We do give warm water esp on cool days. They love it! I really believe our wether who struggled recently with UC (had his stones removed before he was blocked) did not get blocked because we try to give them fresh water every single day! The doctor even told me that this was probably a contributing factor why he had done so well for so long. Clean water is so important! And on cold days molasses to the water is a great idea! Thanks for sharing that with us!

And thank you for the lutelyase info!! Where do you buy yours at?


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## Buck Naked Boers

*Anawhitfield: *Sorry I just saw you get the lutelyase from your vet. =) A bit tired tonight I am! lol. Thanks for that info!!!


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Buck Naked Boers said:


> Thank you *Little Bits and Pieces! *We appreciate the info on Valbazen! I am not sure yet for sure what I will use. My Does worm numbers came back pretty low so I may not need to worm her....
> Is that ok not to do if her numbers are low??


If they're pretty low, I wouldn't worry about it.


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## Buck Naked Boers

*Cathy: *Thank you for the info on baycox dosing and how often you use it. I appreciate that info! 
Also thank you for the info on coats/heat lamps. Yeah they scare me too. And I really don't think we will need them since we have a barn and I would think they will stay warm enough esp if she has them this weekend. But will see. Our daughter wants to use the heatlamp the first night. Will see though. I won't sleep either....lol. They scare me a bit. Although we did get a safety heat lamp and so I think it should be safer than the ones you can buy from home depot. Will see though. We don't have a dog house set up or anything like that. Just a kidding pen with straw in our barn. Large enough area though...12X12 I think. So it will be a nice area and they will have straw. We can set up the heat lamp if we think it is going to be too cold at night but right now we are having pretty warm temps.

Thank you Cathy for all the information! We appreciate it!


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## Buck Naked Boers

Your Welcome Anawhitfield!! We are learning so much too! So thankful so many people took the time to respond! This is a great place for support! =)


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## Buck Naked Boers

Ok thank you for letting me know *Little Bits and Pieces! *Appreciate that info!


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## Buck Naked Boers

*Jessica: *Wow you had trouble with valbazen too? Yikes! Wonder if I should stick to a different wormer! =) I know some people use Cydectin. What do you think about that one?? Ivermectin might work for us....I should probably try it again. I didn't have a scale. =) So once I got a scale I believe I was underdosing them. But my daughter isn't really wanting to use Ivormectin again.

We don't need to use it right now really.....

*But I just learned today that two of my goats have lungworm! *What causes that?? Ugh. We had it once before, I believe one of the goats had it. I think we used Quest for that. 
Have you had lungworm before and if so, what works well to kick it? I think Quest worked well. But Jill/Goathiker was saying we should not use Quest unless we have to as a wormer...which I agree with.

What say you Jessica?

Tami


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## Buck Naked Boers

*Lottsagoats1: *Thank you so much for sharing what you do with kidding and breeding and after kidding and so forth! This is great information! Thank you for posting!! =)


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## cowgirlboergoats

We usually run the does with the buck in the pasture, this year we did bring up a few into the dry lot to fatten them up a bit. The does stay with the buck until they are about 4 months pregnant. Then they are brought to the dry lot. We start with a bit of grain, about 2-3 pound's, give or take a few. It does depend on how many goats are there is in the pen. We up the grain so they will be ready to raise the kids. 
We let the goats kid were they are. If they shows signs they are moved into a kidding pen, if they don't, they stay in the dry lot. Some of the goats have signs, others seem that they have a few weeks and then start popping out in front of your eyes. 
We try to be there, so we can help warm up the kid because it gets pretty cold in February in Midwest US. We towel them, and sometimes bring them into the house were I usually dry them off with a hair dryer. I start with the ears, and then the body. I don't always dry them all the way because they are ready to nurse. Meanwhile my brother,Mom/Dad, and whoever else moves the mama. We dip the navel cords into 7% iodine. Mama and kid stay in the kidding pen until we need for another goat or if they are doing well and need to have room to run. Before the goats go out, they are tagged d marked down witch kid goes with what doe.


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## goathiker

Cydectin and Quest are the same med, Moxidectin (second generation Ivermectin). Ivermectin and Duramectin both work well on lungworm, they are not real hardy. Ivermectin is 1 cc per 22 lbs. orally. This works much better than injected. It is attracted to food particles though so, you need to fast the goats for 8 to 12 hours before giving it.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Hi Jill! Oh . Ok so cydectin and quest are the same. Oops good to know. Lol. Should have known. Maybe my over 40 brain was forgetting. Not sure.

What is attracted to food particles? Ivormectin? Or the lungworms?  wasn't sure.

I am not sure if I should try to use ivormectin or not after last year. You said they are not real hardy. What did you mean by that?

Thanks for clarifying


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## Buck Naked Boers

Thank you cowgirl for sharing your routines too with kidding and breeding. We appreciate your information!!


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## cowgirlboergoats

Your welcome


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## goathiker

Buck Naked Boers said:


> Ok so cydectin and quest are the same.
> They are different strengths and one is a pour on
> Maybe my over 40 brain was forgetting.
> No sympathy here :lol:
> 
> What is attracted to food particles? Ivormectin? Or the lungworms?
> Ivomectin, the lung worms are in their lungs
> 
> I am not sure if I should try to use ivomectin or not after last year.
> You used it how last year? Did you look up the properties of the drug? How did you use it?
> You said they are not real hardy. What did you mean by that?
> Lung worms are really easy to kill, most people just don't think they are gone because the damage they cause has to heal and the goat keeps coughing for a while.
> 
> Thanks for clarifying


...


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## Buck Naked Boers

Jill: Thank you for the answers! I think last year we used it orally AND injected! . One time each way as I recall. No didn't look up properties as I recall. I need to look at my records. Will get back on how long we used it.

Yeah being over 40 gets no sympathy these days lol!!

Ok so have to fast them when using ivermectin.

It's good to know they are easy to kill. I don't know why we have had lungworms twice now.do you know what causes them to get them? Would they be low in something that causes them more susceptibility? Just curious. How to keep them from getting them again. The two who have them, I think one had them last late fall. Anyway just wondered about lungworms. Hope they recover quickly.

Is ivermectin the only med that works for them well? I think I used quest last time for them. Just curious what people use. But they prob use ivermectin.

Thanks for the answers!


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## Jessica84

I have no idea about the lung worms. As far as I know I've never had it. My parents did loose a few head of cattle to it last year when we shipped them up north, they used ivomectin injectable but this is cattle and I've learn that they are NOTHING like a goat lol so I'm no help here, just do as Jill says on that one lol
As for copper their coats were, basically rough and nasty!! My first few years I figured worms but that wasn't the case. So I went ahead and tried the copper and the got nice and slick about a month after. The real breaking point for me on going with a month was I have some black kids now, and again by two months they already had a small bit of rust color on them by two months. But anyways I went with being a month old and they are two months now and they have yet to be rough or rust color.


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## mariarose

Snails. Lungworms come from contact with land snails. Liver flukes come from water snails. We have both in abundance here where I live, so I used Ivermectin Plus injectable for cattle. I used it orally 3 times 10 days apart without fail. It worked.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Thank you Jessica and Mariarose! I appreciate your posts! Good information for us to know about! Thank you!!! We got Ivermectin....and will be treating. If that doesn't work we will then use Prohibit. That works too. Thank you, hope you all have a great day!


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## ksalvagno

Made this a sticky so others can see it quickly.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Thanks Karen for doing that! I know this info really has helped us tremendously! Thank you!! We appreciate all those who gave advice on this thread!


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## Farmgirlzz23

Thank you everyone who has added their different ways to manage kidding and pregnancy of the goats, as we are also new to raising Boer goats in southern Minnesota for both commercial and for our little 4-hers! There is soo much valuable information here, so again thank you


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## animaldude888

I do what everyone else does, except give Bo-se to pregnant does. Our vet raises boer goats and said Bo-so can cause pregnant does to abort if given after one-two months of pregnancy. In addition to what others have said, we keep babies warm in winter by using barrels. We cut a small hole in the bottom for babies to get in, and hook up a heat lamp inside. When everyone is put back together, we use a large livestock water tank to hold babies. A heat lamp is installed in the top and a hole is cut out in the side for kids to get in. We then cut a hole in top which we open and close to check on kids. I had gone through that hole so I could put in 3 bunks on the sides, so it doubles as a creep feeder.


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## jaimn

anawhitfield said:


> Lutalyse is a shot I get from my vet and it was originally intended to induce abortion in early pregnancy by causing contractions to expel the contents of the uterus. Now, I don't use it for abortions. I use it when a doe shows signs of post-kidding infection, when she didn't expel all of the placenta. Lutalyse along with antibiotics are a life-saver. I only buy 2-3 doses each year because they do have an expiration date and if I don't end up using them, I cannot return them for a refund..


A doe kidded today and I was with her long enough to get the kids to eat but not see the placenta drop. When I left her, there were two bloody bags hanging, and when I got home a two hours later there was nothing... in the pen or on her bottom. No other animals in pen to eat it, though she may have. I gave her oxytocin (but did it subq before learning it's muscular so may have wasted it). Vet said get Lutalyse in the morning "just in case". Should I be worried about her? Should I still treat with Lut?
Thanks, and I love this thread, though I wish that I'd found it last week! 

Should I delete this post? I moved the question to here: http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/after-birth-care-184034/#post1964051


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## TDG-Farms

Not a good idea to just give shots when suspect. If she was dangling something, it wasnt there nor was it just lying somewhere, then she ate. Need to give a at least 24 hours before you start to worry about a retained placenta.


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## Aprilszoo

jaimn said:


> A doe kidded today and I was with her long enough to get the kids to eat but not see the placenta drop. When I left her, there were two bloody bags hanging, and when I got home a two hours later there was nothing... in the pen or on her bottom. No other animals in pen to eat it, though she may have. I gave her oxytocin (but did it subq before learning it's muscular so may have wasted it). Vet said get Lutalyse in the morning "just in case". Should I be worried about her? Should I still treat with Lut?
> Thanks, and I love this thread, though I wish that I'd found it last week!


Jaimn, 
You will get more replies if you make your own thread with your question....

There is a button/tab near the top of each forum page that says *new thread* ... You may have to go out to the main forum page, like "Goat Frenzy" or "Health & Wellness" etc... The main page where the thread titles are listed.... But then you'll see the blue button to begin a thread....

TDG gave good advice though...

The mama most likely ate the placenta... They often do. It's natures way of giving the mama a protein and iron boost, to replace what they loose in childbirth... They can gobble it up fast, too... So you may never know it was there.
You'll get more advice and explanation if you start your own topic though.... People might not look here because they aren't expecting a question at the end of an older "stickied" post

Good luck!

:stars:


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## Nubiannewb

How much molasses and how much warm water


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## Suzanne_Tyler

I gave mine a 2 gallon bucket of water with maybe 1/2 cup molasses. I'm not sure what other people do, but she seems to like this ratio


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## TripleShareNubians

One thing I haven't seen that I was taught to do for 3 days post kidding. I give the doe 50cc of mfo solution orally. he replaces a lot of the things she needs and helps prevent milk fever. I think they now call it oral cmk or cmpk.


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